[CCWoody]

But whatever the bible means, as Wesley says, it cannot mean that God created countless billions of souls with the ORIGINAL intention that they have no hope.

I see that xzins has found Supra-Calvinism. (Did I get the label right?)

[xzins]

Supra-Calvinism??????

I've caught something and didn't even know I had it.

In actuality, I NOW remember having read this Wesley sermon during seminary. Too bad it hadn't surfaced in our discussions much earlier. But ftD has been busy searching these things out and posting them.

They'll be some great fodder for these Free Grace debates. Wesley was such a great Christian.

Did you know that until Billy Graham, no one had traveled more miles in a lifetime in preaching the gospel than had Wesley?

[Jerry_M]

No, the label is "supralapsarian". As I stated earlier, this type of speculative theology is probably not something that we wish to discuss in a forum of this type.

Suffice it to say that the differences between a "supralapsarian" and "infralapsarian" position are those of the timing of the decrees of God prior to creation. Even then, I have vastly oversimplified the subject, and do not do credit to its subject matter. This page appears to give a fairly good summary of the positions.