Posted on 04/02/2002 9:29:23 AM PST by Deadeye Division
Concealed-carry bill Officers want more training required
Tuesday, April 2, 2002
Lee Leonard
Dispatch Statehouse Reporter
Police Officer John Brnjic of the Newark Police Department was on his way home for lunch a few weeks ago when a dispatcher diverted him to a neighborhood where three teen-agers were reported to be playing with a firearm.
Brnjic jumped out of his car with his hand on his gun. He ordered the boys to drop to the ground. But one protested, "We didn't do anything,'' and another reached inside his coat and pulled out what looked to the officer like a .45-caliber pistol.
"My gun came up and pointed at him,'' Brnjic recalled. "I kept ordering him to drop it, and finally he did. It turned out to be a BB gun. I didn't shoot. If that was an ordinary citizen (instead of a trained officer), it could have turned very ugly.''
That's why Brnjic and a host of his fellow officers oppose legislation giving Ohioans the limited right to carry concealed weapons.
"You should have the right to bear arms,'' he said, "but leave 'em at home.''
Brnjic's view is widely accepted in the law-enforcement community, but not every uniformed patrol officer agrees.
Officer Keith Washburn of the Chillicothe Police Department said people should be allowed to bear arms wherever they go.
"As long as someone is legally allowed to carry a gun, I don't see why they shouldn't carry concealed,'' he said.
Washburn, who soon will start his eighth year on the force, said he favors House Bill 274, the restricted concealed-weapons bill.
The measure cleared the House on March 21 and is awaiting its initial committee hearing in the Senate.
"I think it's a great bill,'' he said. "It'll make the criminals think -- are they (intended victims) armed? Am I going to be the victim?''
In Youngstown, a quintet of officers preparing to hit the streets after Friday afternoon roll call laughed at the suggestion that such a law would put more guns in play and make their jobs more dangerous.
"In Youngstown, they're carrying guns whether they've got a permit or not,'' said Officer Ed Kenney, an eight-year police veteran, including a year on the Youngstown force.
Kenney said he favors allowing concealed weapons as long as there's a thorough criminal-background check.
"It's a constitutional right,'' he said.
But he said the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles should keep records of who has a permit and send that information to an officer requesting a computer check on a motorist. House Bill 274 doesn't have that provision.
Youngstown Officer Robert Martini, who has 17 years in law enforcement, argued with Kenney about the wisdom of allowing concealed weapons.
"Someone could pass a background check and still go crazy,'' Martini said. "There's going to be more people putting my life in jeopardy.''
Fellow Officer Rich Geraci favors the bill, saying armed residents could help the police.
"If a (potential) victim has the right to carry that weapon and defend themselves, go for it,'' he said.
The Youngstown officers said they haven't noticed any bad side effects in western Pennsylvania, only a few miles away. The state has allowed concealed weapons for 14 years and has issued 314,000 permits.
"You can't tell the difference,'' Geraci said. "There's not a drastic change.''
Chillicothe Officer Marvin Shaw, a 22-year veteran, agrees with the idea but considers House Bill 274 poorly written.
Shaw said the training requirement is too weak, handguns should be barred from more places, and "There's way too much leeway for having a weapon in a vehicle.
"It's a badly written bill. The premise is good, but they've tried to satisfy everyone.''
An informal sampling of beat officers in several cities showed they are most concerned that people who get permits wouldn't be properly trained, wouldn't have to requalify to renew them and might treat their handguns the way some motorists treat their cars -- using them after drinking alcohol.
"They take a chance on driving after drinking,'' said Sgt. Paul Davis of the Newark Police Department. "They'll take a chance with this.''
Newark Officer Doug Wells foresees increased instances of road rage: "They use their cars to run people off the road. Next, it's going to be shooting out the window.''
Chillicothe Police Chief Jeffrey L. Keener disagreed. "I'd like to think people are going to use good sense,'' he said.
Davis said Newark police officers take 100 hours of training a year. That includes learning how and when to use force to subdue a suspect. He agreed with Brnjic that officers have to make split-second decisions on whether to use their weapons.
"I don't think they (permit holders) are going to be trained to make those decisions,'' Davis said.
Lax training requirements in the bill are a common target of Ohio officers.
Chillicothe Officer Rich Henderson said he could support the bill if there were a minimum of 40 hours of training and more-thorough background checks.
Henderson said there should be at least 24 hours of weapons-qualifying time spent on a shooting range and another 16 hours of classroom time dealing with firearms safety and the law on the use of deadly force.
Shaw said Chillicothe officers are required to qualify on the pistol range four times a year. He said civilians seeking permits to carry concealed weapons should be trained about how to make split-second decisions when using their guns.
"They make simulators,'' Shaw said. "Take 'em in there and run 'em through the 'shoot-don't shoot.' ''
Under the existing law, anyone needing to carry a concealed weapon for security, such as a nurse working late or a bar owner taking his payroll to the bank, may use that as an affirmative defense if arrested for carrying a hidden gun.
But House Bill 274 would actually supply the permits to any qualified individual 21 or older who signs an affidavit that the weapon will be used for protection.
Some officers don't buy the argument that their wives should have permits to carry guns for protection while they are away.
"There's something called a cellphone,'' Brnjic said.
He conceded that his wife, who isn't a fan of guns, feels safer when they go out and he's packing.
The Columbus and Dayton police departments declined to allow The Dispatch access to officers for this story. Sgt. Earl W. Smith of the Columbus Division of Police said the officers could regret commenting.
"It's such a highly political issue,'' he said.
www.ohioccw.org
But the reason it would NOT have gotten ugly, Mr. Officer With No Vowels In His Name, is that a civilian would NOT have investigated or demanded actions of a group of teenagers not involved in assaulting or menacing someone. That role is left to law enforcement officers. Your analogy fails utterly.
"You should have the right to bear arms,'' he said, "but leave 'em at home.''
Bear means to carry.
I will tell you what, Mr. Officer With No Vowels In His Name: I will pit your wife, armed with her deadly cellphone, against a five-time-convicted rapist who is completely unarmed.
What a freakin' fool.
This is one dumb cop.
Stupid comment. How can I have the right to bear my arms if I cannot bear the damned thing except in my bedroom?!?!?!? Dumb ass cop. All cops are not smart. This is one of the non-smart ones.
Meanwhile allowing our LEOs to carry at all seems to be about as wise as giving toddlers gasoline and matches.
They didn't seem to hire this one for his brains, that's for sure.
BWHAAAAHAAAA.
BWHAAAAHAAAA.
Hey, YOU should talk....
;^)
And apparantly, Officer Brnrgjkrgnkcjkrnjgjjnbrgjnkjrngkjgjkrgjnjkcnjkrgjcjnkrngjjbnjrkrjngkgjnbjrnjck seems to think that rapists are the most equal of all.
Maybe my copy of the Constitution is the Readers' Digest Condensed Version, because I don't see that part in there.
A couple made in heaven: he wants his wife to defend herself with a cellphone, she likes to be safe with the gun she dislikes.
Then carry one instead of your sidearm.
He conceded that his wife, who isn't a fan of guns, feels safer when they go out and he's packing.
Packing what? His cellphone?
Deadeye, what kind of training does the legislation require for citizen CCW?
There's also something called "lackonookie", which Officer Vowelless will soon experience if he's married to a woman with an atom of self-respect.
Maybe Spielberg could digitally insert him, armed with his cellphone, into the next edition of E.T.
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