Posted on 04/04/2002 5:49:03 AM PST by MissTargets
Gun debate rages
By JOHN GRANT EMEIGH Tribune Chronicle
The Smith and Wesson 9 mm semiautomatic is a well-balanced firearm with smooth action, a light recoil and enough stopping power to drop anything on two legs.
Bill Spencer, who spent part of Thursday afternoon practicing his shooting with that bad boy at an indoor firing range in Warren, said he would feel much safer if the state allowed him to carry the gun on him. He may get to do just that if the state legislature and governor approve a pending bill permitting the carrying of concealed handguns. ''I think (the bill) is a pretty good idea,'' the Champion resident said after firing a tight grouping of slugs through a paper target. ''It would give someone a chance to fight back.''
The legislation, House Bill 274, was passed by the state House March 21 and will go on to the Senate for consideration. If signed into law by the governor, the bill would allow Ohioans to apply for a permit to carry a handgun out of plain sight. The contrasting opinions of people for and against this legislation are as dynamic as a muzzle flash against the night sky.
Local supporters of the conceal and carry law believe responsible gun owners have the right to carry a handgun and think the law would deter violent crime. Opponents believe it will only add more guns to an already deadly stew of firearms being cooked in the streets today.
Bill Robertson, owner of the JCL Shooting Range Recreational and Training Center in Warren, gets worked up when he watches an opponent of the concealed gun law talk about the legislation on the evening news. The animated Vietnam veteran jumps out of his seat, satirically sticks his finger up his nose, and in a whinny voice, mocks what he sees as the typical anti-gun person: ''Oh, there's already too many guns on the street.''
''Of course there's guns on the streets,'' he said getting serious. ''It's all the criminals who have the guns!''
Robertson said law-abiding citizens are the ones who get hurt for not being allowed to carry a concealed gun.
''I'm sick and tired of being punished for what the criminals do,'' he said.
If approved, people 21 and older could get a permit to carry a concealed handgun after undergoing a background check by their local sheriff's department. According to the bill passed by the House, the background check would deny anyone a permit if they have a felony indictment. It would also deny someone convicted of a misdemeanor offense involving an act of violence within three years of the application date. The check also would deny permits to those who have been ordered by the courts as being mentally incompetent to own a gun.
Gov. Bob Taft has stated he probably will veto any concealed carry legislation because it has not been supported by the Fraternal Order of Police.
Lt. Mark Durkin of the Austintown Police Department and a member of the Mahoning Valley Violent Crimes Task Force said he understands the FOP's stance against the law.
''As a whole, law enforcement in general is not in favor of it simply because any more guns on the street is not a good thing,'' Durkin said.
However, Durkin said the people who would pass the background check and get a permit to carry a concealed gun usually do not cause problems for police.
Denno Trazzini, a manager at the Shooting Gallary in Boardman, supports the position taken by the Ohioans for Concealed Carry (OFCC), which is convinced that more guns equates to less crime.
''They (criminals) know you have a gun and that sort of changes the odds,'' Trazzini said.
Miriam Fife, the Trumbull County Court Advocate for Victim Witnesses, works with victims of violent crimes and sees guns as a major problem. She said people would be more apt to act impulsively if they are carrying a gun and lash out with it in anger.
''I don't think ordinary citizens need to be walking around with guns,'' Fife said.
In order to get a permit, the bill states that people must go through classroom training and four hours of shooting on a firing range. Fife said ordinary people do not go through as much firearm training as police and wouldn't properly use a gun.
Durkin agreed that owning and using a firearm is a tremendous responsibility and requires much training.
''As police officers, we constantly train with our weapons and we're not always that good with them,'' he said.
Warren police Chief John Mandopoulos said he does not see any sense in the conceal and carry law. He said people will be more likely to use guns during cases of road rage and other moments when people lose control of their anger. And once people lose control with a gun, he said it is often too late to prevent something bad from happening.
''Have you ever seen anything good come out of the end of a gun? Once that bullet comes out, you can't reverse it,'' Mandopoulos said.
The police chief is rarely seen carrying a handgun on him unless he's going out in the field on police business. Mandopoulos said he doesn't particularly like guns anyway.
''If I had my way, I'd get rid of all the guns and go back to fighting with fists,'' he said. ''That way, you know who wins the fight when it's over and everyone goes back home at the end of the day.''
Miriam Fife's 9 year old son was brutally murdered, (not by a gun) almost 20 years ago. His killers still sit in dead row. Anyone who works with victims of violence, should realze the need for protection.
My vote for understatement of the day.
My girlfriend's ex-boyfriend/stalker would think that was a great idea. She doesn't. She now has a gun and a CHL.
I know this isn't the point of the article, but that comment on the stopping power of a 9mm?
Who really carrys a 9mm for it's stopping power?
Isn't it's selling point is that it's easier to carry than a .45 or .357?
Although, I guess as compared to a .22...
Well, the 9-mm is sort of a modernized .38. 9 mm is 0.354 inches. What the author is trying to do is smear the weapon as one of those "high-power (semi)automatic assault pistols".
High Power? Meet my Colt Anaconda in 44 mag.
--Boris
I hope that clears up the confusion.
I'm all for concealed carry. But then, I'm all for open carry as well. Start with the permits first (grumble grumble), and work to get those eliminated and move onto Vermont style carry next.
No kidding. 9mm at a large, well-built attacker, unless very well-placed or followed-up with a couple more, is only going to make him angry.
I know I'm stepping 9mm toes everywhere, but if .45 (let alone .44 mag) is too big to carry, look into a nice .40, and practice well-placed, multiple rounds.
After reading the lead line, I actually thought the great debate was over the ability of a 9mm to stop anything on two legs, as opposed to the .45ACP or the .40S&W, both of which have proven stopping power. Instead, the article turned out to be like that Monty Python skit, "I'm here to have an argument. No you're not...." Stupid anti-ccw's are doing the equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "Nah, nah, nah" so they can't hear any possible fact that would upset their world view.
Since the parabellum cartridge is so wimpy and useless, I assume you're volunteering to be shot with one? No? Didn't think so...
AB
I realize it does quote the anti's more than the pro's, but some of their quotes are ridiculous enough to count for 'our side'. =^)
That will never happen. Those states that have ccw are discovering that it's a nice little cash cow, good for at least a few hundred thousand in fees a year, on up through a million or two. Plus all the trainers have a financial incentive to keep the license program going. Name one state that has gone to a Vermont style system after enacting a licensing system.
LOL! (Though I don't think of these people as having their fingers up their noses....)
"I have to because it's my job, but Andy makes me keep the bullet in my shirt pocket."
Have you ever seen anything good come out of the end of a gun?
[insert any of several thousand The Armed Citizen reports or any of several million unreported cases]
There was a reason why the U.S. Army did away with the .38 after the Spanish American war and went to the .45. Stopping and dropping power, plain and simple.
Yes, the 9mm will hurt you. Yes, a well placed shot will in fact kill you. But if you hit me in the leg with a 9mm, I'm just going to get back up and kick your ass, as opposed to having my leg blown off or completely incapacitated with a good .44 magnum.
I was making light of the article's author commenting on the "awesome" stopping power of the 9mm. It just doesn't live up to that claim.
Chill dude, we're on the same side here.
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