[wideawake]

All right, that was out of line. I apologize.

The Church is not a democracy - i.e. the faithful don't get to vote on matters of discipline any more than they get a vote on matters of doctrine or morals.

But the faithful do have rights in the Church. Among those rights are access to the Sacraments and the right to be accurately instructed in faith and morals. These simple, basic responsibilities on the part of the clergy: orthodox instruction, Masses said according to the GIRM, etc. have been abandoned by many clerics.

We have a right to appeal over the heads of negligent prelates to Rome for justice. And Rome has a responsibility to listen and take things seriously.

[eastsider]

... Masses said according to the GIRM ...

Pardon my ignorance, but what's the GIRM?

[Renatus]

But the faithful do have rights in the Church. Among those rights are access to the Sacraments and the right to be accurately instructed in faith and morals. These simple, basic responsibilities on the part of the clergy: orthodox instruction, Masses said according to the GIRM, etc. have been abandoned by many clerics.

I could not agree with you more. It's a miracle!

[ecomcon]

The Catholic Church has set up a false division between the leaders and the led. The faithfull are the Church of Christ. The hierarchy and structure are not.

Not to say that there is something necessarily wrong with hierarchy or structure, per se. It seems that the prelates think of themselves as separate from the laity. They are to serve and shepherd. There calling is to humility.

He who would be first, must be last.

[patent]

When I first read #2 I was a little surprised, but I was very gratified to see that you pinged him. Your post 6 showed class, thanks.

patent