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To: ppaul
Toms River, not that big - two recent shootings like this! Is it something in the water?

Probably. But we should be asking, "Why does every tin-pot, small town in America need a SWAT team?"

The hell it's not (big, that is)! Toms River itself is basically just the downtown area of Dover Township, which has 80,000+ people in it. Dover Township has the second-largest municipal police department in the state, if I remember correctly.

And also bear in mind that this latest shooting did not take place in Toms River, it took place in Seaside Heights, which is a tourist town to the east, on the beaches.

My father retired last year from Dover Township PD as a lieutenant after 33 years. He was in charge of the Emergency Services Unit (i.e., SWAT team), was an experienced hostage negotiator, he trained their snipers, and was an instructor at the county police academy. You'd be surprised at how often ESU is legitimately called out to respond to emergencies. And not once in its history have they ever shot anybody!

Bottom line: the police in Dover Township are very professional.

The only fatal shooting in the force's entire history occurred about 3 or 4 years ago, when a guy fired several shotgun blasts at two officers, who repeatedly told him to drop the weapon and surrender (he'd already wounded another person). It was basically a suicide-by-cop, and he was determined to die.

Most of the cops in Seaside Heights are part-timers, not full-time professionals, because the town is largely deserted from October to late-April. I actually had a teacher in high school that had been a part-time cop there when he was younger. I'm not denigrating Seaside PD, but as my father has said, a lot of cops today are too quick to shoot.

However, in this case, this was just plain murder, of which anybody is capable, whether they're a cop or not.

24 posted on 04/10/2002 6:29:47 AM PDT by JMK
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To: JMK
The hell it's not (big, that is)! Toms River itself is basically just the downtown area of Dover Township, which has 80,000+ people in it.

LOL!
And, they need a friggin' SWAT team?!!
Gimme a break.

26 posted on 04/10/2002 6:46:39 AM PDT by ppaul
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To: JMK
Good Post JMK!

I know the leaders of the SWAT teams in my area from Martial Arts and Firearms Classes and I absolutely agree that they are my heroes and have my total trust. I'm glad that the citizens of Dover have enjoyed such a good streak of non-fatal interventions(doing it right saves lives)... I hope this shooter turns out to be an organic problem...he may have stroked out or something...

I'm very sorry for the victims...I'm sure the community will come together for them. NJ has got to have some redeeming qualities to offset their draconian legal atmosphere...I hope!

47 posted on 04/10/2002 3:33:51 PM PDT by sleavelessinseattle
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