Private Governments? Critics Say Homeowners Associations Can Be Too Strict

ABC NEWS, 20/20 ^ | April 20 | ABCNEWS.com

[southern rock]

Anybody see this story on 20/20 last night?

King of your castle no more, folks. What ever happened to absolute property rights?

[mrs9x]

You don't have the right to do anything you want with your property. For example, there probably are covenants on your land that prevent you from using your residential property for commercial uses.

[southern rock]

You don't have the right to do anything you want with your property.

As long as I am not violating anyone else's rights, why not??

For example, there probably are covenants on your land that prevent you from using your residential property for commercial uses.

Once you own your property, why can you not use it for whatever purpose you wish, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else?

[Excuse_My_Bellicosity]

Tell it to the warden. There are people in Florida right now who are facing fines and jail time for displaying the American flag. I'm not saying it's right, but it is going on right now.

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

CAN? be too strict?

They are making a man take down a flag pole in his front yard because their nazi rule only allows a small flag attached to the house.

[small voice in the wilderness]

In Richmond, Va., Richard Oulton, a Vietnam veteran, is fighting his homeowners association for the right to fly an American flag on a 25-foot pole. The association ordered him to take the flagpole down, calling it a "visual nuisance."

We moved into this neighborhood last year, not knowing the war that was taking place here because of his flagpole. A Vietnam veteran and a lawyer, he is not one to order around with AR rules and regulations. I believe he is trying to get state legislation passed that would override Wyndham's Association rules. In any case, look for him to persevere all the way to the Supreme Court, if that's what it takes.

[strela]

If this sort of thing bothers you, the solution is simple - don't buy a house in a neighborhood with this sort of homeowner's association. A careful buyer will perform the due diligence necessary to find out if the local homeowner's association is stocked with Mrs. Grundys before buying into the neighborhood.

It seems to me that if enough people were to take exception to these sorts of restrictions, the free marketplace would take care of the "problem" on its own. On the other hand, if you enjoy obeying piddly rules about what sort of lawn decorations you can display on your property, I suppose that's a call you get to make as a homebuyer. Its your money; its your home.

Ain't free enterprise great?

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

The 20/20 story exposed the nazi associations for what they are.

There is only one solution. NO ONE should join them or move in any smancy fancy condo or home that the ASSOCIATION is affiliated with.

Sad thing is the retired folks are being suckered.

What IDIOT would PAY 'an association' 500 bucks a month to be tyrannical? How politically correctly elitist yuppish have Americans turned into?

[southern rock]

"A homeowners association is essentially a private government. ... They don't have to respect your civil liberties the same way a real local government has to. They don't have to worry about the Constitution or the Bill of Rights."

Winona Blevins, an elderly widow who lived in a planned community in Houston called Champions, was astonished when a constable came to her door one morning and told her he had a court order to evict her.

Something doesn't add up here. If they are not a real government, they why are their decisions being backed up and enforced by taxpayer paid, real public employees??

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

We had the same idea.Why are others not practicing it? Greed? Folks wanna be on the A list of society?

[LarryLied]

Some good news. The retired Marine in Jupiter, Florida who was fined nearly $30,000 for having an American flag on a flagpole and not attached to his house, won his case against the homeowners association. Several courts had ruled agaisnt him, he was in danger of losing his house but, in February, it was finally all over and the flag still flies.

[southern rock]

If this sort of thing bothers you, the solution is simple - don't buy a house in a neighborhood with this sort of homeowner's association.

No, it's not that simple. I don't beleive that PRIVATE PROPERTY owners are obligated to recognize this type of "authority" over THEIR OWN property!!

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

We have another and even bigger bully to worry about

[LarryLied]

check out #11. We had a great Veteran's day rally at his house, Vets turned out for the court hearing and the State of Florida passed a law over riding any association attempt to stop the exhibit of the American flag. Even after that law was passed, the association, foolishly, continued the matter but now it is all over for them.

[southern rock]

Several courts had ruled agaisnt him, he was in danger of losing his house but, in February, it was finally all over and the flag still flies.

Excellent!

[TaRaRaBoomDeAyGoreLostToday!]

When someone buys such a home or property, they are well aware of the association. The association would cease to exist if elite wanna be in the "A" list yuppie folks would not enable them and their cause of the stepford neighborhood.

It is like keeping up with the Jones' like a country club.People are stupid and selfish and snobbish.

[strela]

I don't beleive that PRIVATE PROPERTY owners are obligated to recognize this type of "authority" over THEIR OWN property!!

Nonsense. If the people in the news story signed a contract to do so, they most certainly are obligated to follow whatever rules they agreed to when they signed on the dotted line. If not, then all contracts would be meaningless.

For example, my neighborhood's association has two (and ONLY two) covenants specifically listed in the contract; you can't raise swine on your property and you have to keep your grass mowed to at least 12 inches or below in height during the spring and summer months. Both of these restrictions are just fine by me, and I knew about both of them going into the transaction when I bought my place.

By your logic, it should be perfectly OK for me as a homeowner to operate a crack house or crude oil cracking plant out of my living room, and my neighbors would have absolutely nothing to say about it.

The "damaged" individuals quoted in the ABC News story have a perfect way out of their contretemps; MOVE.

[southern rock]

When someone buys such a home or property, they are well aware of the association.

Yes, but where does this private association get it's authority, and why is it recognized by the state or locality? Private ownership of property should be 100% of the law, period.

[small voice in the wilderness]

AAAHUUUMMMM. I'll tell you why we moved here. Because the last neighborhood we lived in had no real rules or regulations. They depended on everyone doing the right thing. As a result, we lived next door to people who enjoyed their 16 Labrador Retrievers. And their delapidated boat, resting on cement blocks, that Mr. Next Door had planned to fix up and one day hope to enjoy. I never saw him begin this transformation, it was his pipe dream.

We were sick and tired of putting up with people who don't give a sh*t. So given a choice between nazi associations and as**ole neighbors, we decided that with the former, at least our resale value would rise over the years.

[Smittie]

The local busybody next door reports anything on my property that she thinks is in violation. I just received another letter yesterday from the neighborhood nazi's for my dog. Of course the association is long distance and I'm not going to waste my money calling to find out exactly what he was supposed to have done. He's 10 years old and just stays in the back yard. If they are brave enough to tell him the problem they are welcome to, but idiots who aren't brave enough to talk to you in person aren't likely to do that.

I'm just about ready to move. I didn't have any experience with one before now but once is enough.

The city codes are all that you should be required to live by since one can vote for them. The busybodies on these associations make sure they keep themselves in control.