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To: Zviadist
Ironically, many of the "reforms" of Vatican II will end up saving the Church. I've heard countless stories from grandparents, etc. about the problems they had with authoritarian, overbearing priests who lorded over their parishioners.

The latter half of the 20th Century was probably the first time in history that the Church laity was more competent, more capable, and more educated than the clergy. While there are potential pitfalls, this presents a marvelous opportunity for the Church.

I predict that the diocesan structure of the Church will slowly disappear, and will be replaced by something similar to what Tom Monaghan (founder of Domino's Pizza) has done in Michigan. He built his own church, built his own schools (including a Catholic law school), and brought in an order of priests and nuns to staff the facilities.

When the local bishop called him to complain that Monaghan had no authority to do this things without the bishop's permission, Monaghan asked the bishop who the f#ck he thought he was, told him to f#ck himself and everyone else who worked in his chancery office, and told him that people like him (the bishop) were irrelevant fools and that the real faith was being preserved (and spread) by people who really matter.

Case closed. Monaghan's chuch and schools are still standing, and the local bishop is sitting around wondering how many assets his diocese will still have left after all the sex abuse lawsuits are adjudicated.

30 posted on 04/24/2002 11:59:50 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: Alberta's Child
Monaghan asked the bishop who the f#ck he thought he was, told him to f#ck himself and everyone else who worked in his chancery office, and told him that people like him (the bishop) were irrelevant fools and that the real faith was being preserved (and spread) by people who really matter.

If you can say this to a bishop in America, you can say it to a pope in Rome. I sure hope this story isn't true.

31 posted on 04/24/2002 12:05:39 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: Alberta's Child

The latter half of the 20th Century was probably the first time in history that the Church laity was more competent, more capable, and more educated than the clergy.

Good points, especially the above. The laity have certainly taken the lead in the traditional movement. Even in organized movements like the SSPX the laity play a central role. They have seen what can be taken away from them if they are not vigilent, so they are now finally willing to stand up and say, as you put it later in your post, "keep your f#*king hands off our Faith."

33 posted on 04/24/2002 12:50:01 PM PDT by Zviadist
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To: Alberta's Child
Let me point out some of the liberal spin in your post.

First of all, Tom Monaghan would never say to his bishop: who the f#ck he thought he was, [or] told him to f#ck himself and everyone else who worked in his chancery office.
In your wishful thinking description he sounds like flaming power-hungry liberal. Tom Monaghan is a devout Catholic and a very humble man. There was a PBS program about him last year. This guy was so humble that he even considered driving a luxury car to be a sinful indulgence.
And here is a quote from Monaghan,

I am grateful that I have been given the faith to accept what the Church teaches. If the Church is for something, I am for it; if the Church is against something, I am against it. To support Church teaching, I don’t have to be able to win a debate. I simply begin with the assumption that the Church is right. Then I try to find projects to spread the faith and to strengthen the Church wherever I can.
>If half of what I've heard about Monaghan is true (good and bad), then the story is probably true.

Half-truths are also known as LIES.

>Church laity was more competent, more capable, and more educated than the clergy...

Another example of liberal wishful thinking. The "clergy" do not come from outer space, they are "laity" before they become clergy.
How do they become clergy?
By studying for many years and, finally, being ordained upon graduation. How then, could someone without that painstaking preparation suddenly become more competent, more capable, and more educated, huh?

Finally, a piece of advice, if you post something "revolutionary," check your sources first or at least use common sense.

35 posted on 04/24/2002 4:03:46 PM PDT by heyheyhey
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