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Choosing childlessness
Boston Globe ^ | April 29, 2002 | Cathy Young

Posted on 04/29/2002 3:22:45 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:07:44 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Poohbah
there is going to be a "birth crash" that will have to be experienced to be believed.

Not necessarily; it's easy enough to make up the birth dearth in immigration. In Europe they are in the process of replacing one set of "peoples" with another; from the MidEast and elsewhere.

It's fascinating to me to see how all these newly ordained women lawyers and doctors and white collar types finally have it dawn on them how "unfulfilling" it is to achieve material success and not much else. Like that famous poster of the woman in a 1960's party dress, crying into her handkerchief..."Oops!! I forgot to have kids!!"

21 posted on 04/29/2002 6:17:29 AM PDT by Nonstatist
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To: Poohbah
A lot of the "studies" in higher education don't have anything to do with learning but a lot to do with extracting money and giving an easy grade with the side benifit of LIBERAL indoctrination. As we fail to educate our children we're slowly destroying our strength as a country.
22 posted on 04/29/2002 6:22:36 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Mercat
I can dream can't I.

Yes, you can!

23 posted on 04/29/2002 6:24:01 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Nonstatist
People like Cathy Young may rationalize it away, but most women idealize marriage and family (look at all those Bride magazines out there). She may say she's content, but I would think that's a minority position for someone in her circumstances. What a lonely way to end your life, with the only pictures on your mantle being that of your cat! Yecch.

It's a long, lonely time to reflect.

24 posted on 04/29/2002 6:28:28 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: elk
What a great post!

My message to the women in this country is that life is terribly difficult for most women around the world, so don't squander your blessings and your freedom.

Bump!

25 posted on 04/29/2002 6:30:23 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: grlfrnd
It's not that women want to be single, but living in a city, most of the single men are gay.

I'd say it depends on the city. You're from San Francisco, aren't you? ;-)

I never put much stock in the male-to-female or gay-to-straight ratios in cities anyway. There may be more competition for desirable mates, but the POOL itself is still bigger than it would be in a small town.

26 posted on 04/29/2002 6:56:21 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
my best friend from lawschool, married "down". She took and passed the bar, but her husband didn't go to college, is successful as a defense industry consultant, given his career in the Navy. She never went back to work after having kids and he has been the breadwinner. She volunteers in her kids Catholic school etc. You can get out of life what you are looking for, these whiners make me sick!
27 posted on 04/29/2002 7:01:41 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: grlfrnd
"You are now 40+ and you are resigned to the fact that you're going to be single forever, the only men you know will be gay, and you will never date again because you are seen as too old, and you (the female) have probably developed a compulsive eating disorder from the (non) dating situation in your life. You'd still like to meet someone, but you have given up."

Lemme give you mine:

I'm 50, overweight, with heart disease and diabetes. I am not handsome. I am single, never married, and unlikely to ever marry.

My assets include a degree in "Aeronautics and Astronautics" from M.I.T., a six-figure income, a steady job, a quirky sense of humor, and a house. I am (I am told) unusually broadly educated for an engineer. I can talk about Shakespeare and Bach, Hawking and Victorian poetry, and not rely on Cliff's Notes. These are not famous as secondary sexual characteristics, except perhaps in Russia.

A co-worker (female) asked what women represent to me. I told her, "An inexhaustible source of emotional pain." ALL of my relationships have gone bad, and I get dumped. One woman--whom I wanted to marry--dumped me for another woman. They are now living together, "partners" for 20 years, and have adopted a little black girl.

Somewhere along the line, I gave up. I am just tired of dealing with rejection and bad relationships. I said, "Boris old boy, whatever you've got, women don't want. Whatever they want, you ain't got."

I tell my luckier friends--who suffer the burdens of marriage and children--that they are the ones truly blessed.

**I** am one of life's losers. My genes will not be launched into the future. In a sense, I've let my father--and his ancestors--down, for the line of 'Borises" ends here.

28 posted on 04/29/2002 7:08:07 AM PDT by boris
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
If a woman spends 20 years on the birth control pill, and/or has a bunch of abortions, then I don't understand how she could possibly complain about the fact that she doesn't have any children. It's not like all those pills went into her mouth by accident, or the abortions were performed without her permission. So I don't understand why these women are complaining.

Also, it's a complete myth that women have trouble finding nice men who would make good husbands. I know that when I was in college, plenty of women rejected me, with their only reason being, "You're a really nice guy." Later, she'd start dating some jerk who treated her really badly. And she'd continue dating him for a long time. And then she'd complain to me, "My boyfriend is a jerk. He treats me so badly." Why should I feel sorry for her? She chose to reject the nice guy. And she chose to date the jerk. She made the choices. The only real victims are the nice guys who can't get a date, because so many women would rather date the jerks.

29 posted on 04/29/2002 7:08:44 AM PDT by grundle
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To: grundle
so many women would rather date the jerks

This is so true and I will never understand why. If there is any young woman here gracious enough to venture a theory, I'd love to hear it.

30 posted on 04/29/2002 8:16:55 AM PDT by tdadams
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To: tdadams
This is so true and I will never understand why. If there is any young woman here gracious enough to venture a theory, I'd love to hear it.

Not "young" anymore, but here is my theory:

In life, you have your lemons, and then you have your lemon-pickers.

Some girls seem to go out of their way to pick men who will make them unhappy. They seem to fall into three categories. There's one type who seems to get more satisfaction from complaining about a bad relationship than they would get from actually having a relationship about which they couldn't complain. There's another type you could call the masochist/adrenaline junkie, who positively seeks turmoil because stability is boring; if by some chance the relationship is going well for a few minutes, they'll be forced to START trouble. Then there's the type who believes that love can be measured according to the hoops her partner is willing to jump through; she'll pick somebody who is totally inappropriate for her and declare that "if he really loved her" he'd change W, X, Y, and Z about himself. This approach usually provides a long period of glorious misery during which she can feel like the virtuous martyr while her "needs" are ignored by that selfish man, unless the poor sap really does change W, X, Y, and Z . Then he invariably finds out that his woman just isn't interested in him anymore.

I don't think it's necessarily a self-image problem. It's more of a fantasy-vs-reality thing. They write a kind of script for their romantic lives and are so attached to it that they can't bring themselves to change a single word or stage direction, thinking the problem can be solved by constant re-casting instead.

31 posted on 04/29/2002 8:44:14 AM PDT by hellinahandcart
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To: joathome
Be cautious with "engineers". Many are brilliant with math and science, but have great difficulty writing a sentence, dealing with people, and communicating. That is very important to most women. If a woman marries an engineer, chances are there will be major communication problems. If she is aware of that and accepts it, fine. But you cannot remake a person the way you want them to be. If you want a good communcator, find another kind of person. Avoid Engineers. (Not ALL Engineers are communcations-challenged, but it is a common trait!)

I work with Engineers, and I love them, but they struggle every day trying to "communicate." They just wanna fix stuff, not talk about it.

32 posted on 04/29/2002 8:56:32 AM PDT by Goldi-Lox
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To: grlfrnd
Listen, I take it, that it never acured to you that there are such a thing as a single HETROSEXUAL men. And that the reason they are single is because of the lack of quality of women in the (cess)pool of choices that they can chose from.
33 posted on 04/29/2002 9:06:10 AM PDT by Paul C. Jesup
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To: grundle;grlfrnd;wildandcrazyrussian;AF_Blue
Bookmarking - have lots to contribute but it will have to wait until later.
34 posted on 04/29/2002 9:11:58 AM PDT by TruthNtegrity
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To: boris
Every cloud has a silver lining... even yours. Many men in your position have gotten married to their eternal regret. The wife has used the "breadwinner" as a "meal ticket" and is emotionally abusive and financially draining.

You don't have children...many of those who do find them to be a blessing or a curse. You've focused on the blessings, but consider that you may have had a more "troubled" offspring. At least you don't have a child who is a drug addict, bringing home diseases, and sponging off of you. Many do. Many have ungrateful children, are only waiting for parents to say "sayanara" so they can have the money you've worked and saved. They steal from their parents, take their cars and wreck them, and do all sorts of things to make their parents lives miserable. One of my high-school friends has 2 children. One is a blessing, the other is a curse. The other is the one who has made her old before her time. She will likely die an early death due to the worries and problems he's caused.

Develop friends of both sexes. Do the things you enjoy. Be spontaneous. You don't have to "ask the wife" if you want to have a drink, take a cruise, walk on the beach, or buy a new car. Enjoy all that G-d has given you. See your cup as half full, not half empty. You can't change the way your life has turned out, but you CAN enjoy the fruits of your labors.

I've had my own issues to deal with, but I refuse to allow my problems to interfere with enjoying the gift of life that G-d gave me. I'm going to do the best I can to enjoy every moment to the best of my ability. We owe our Creator that.

35 posted on 04/29/2002 9:12:07 AM PDT by Goldi-Lox
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To: grlfrnd
good for you.
36 posted on 04/29/2002 9:13:42 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Goldi-Lox
I'm sorry for your losses and tribulations. You are right...sometimes life doesn't work out like we all hoped or planned and you simply have to make the best of it and prevail.
37 posted on 04/29/2002 9:15:41 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: wildandcrazyrussian
Bumpski!
38 posted on 04/29/2002 9:16:47 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: Poohbah
either American women start marrying down, or there is going to be a "birth crash" that will have to be experienced to be believed.

Just wait until they work out the kinks in the male version of the birth control pill (which is in clinical trials right now). Once they do, I bet that every guy making over minimum wage will be on them, and you'll see a really big "birth crash" then.

39 posted on 04/29/2002 9:21:36 AM PDT by adx
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
The most successful marriages (in the circle of my friends) I know are between high school classmates. I think this is because prior to dating, there is an opportunity to observe the prospective girlfriend/boyfriend and get an objective idea of strengths/weaknesses of that person.

Dating a coworker might have a similar advantage, were it not discouraged by sexual harassment policies.

On the other hand, in the dating game the objective is to create the best impression, through bullshit if need be. It's like buying a used car, no wonder the process produces so many lemons. Compared to it, arranged marriages would actually represent a progress.

40 posted on 04/29/2002 9:25:37 AM PDT by Feldkurat_Katz
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