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Justice Dept. Reverses Policy on Meaning of Second Amendment
The New York Times ^ | 5/7/02 | Linda Greenhouse

Posted on 05/07/2002 12:09:03 PM PDT by GeneD

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To: Semper libertas
Check this one out and tell all these good folks how the republicans have sold us out.
41 posted on 05/07/2002 1:00:32 PM PDT by BOBTHENAILER
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To: headsonpikes
So you'd rather eat a bug than a worm.

When you put it that way, it's really a no-brainer.

42 posted on 05/07/2002 1:00:38 PM PDT by Huck
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To: Diddle E. Squat
bttt
43 posted on 05/07/2002 1:01:28 PM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch
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To: GeneD
Yet another good move by Bush. Hope there are many more to come.
44 posted on 05/07/2002 1:02:38 PM PDT by wattsmag2
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To: MCRD
MCRD said: "The libertarians on this forum can bitch and moan all they want about Pres. Bush but if he (and Ashcroft) are willing to fight hard for the 2nd Amendment then they have done enough for me! 10X BANG"

Anti-gun sentiment in Kalifornia reached a fever pitch in just a decade. This issue was the canary in the coal mine, reminding all of us of the inter-relationship of our rights. The right to keep and bear arms protects our communities, our families, and our property. When the Second Amendment is re-established, it will be time to turn our attention to returning the government to one of Constitutional limits since our communities, our families, and our property will still be at considerable risk.

45 posted on 05/07/2002 1:05:36 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
How does this compute, in the Bush is a liberal camp?

You know the country is in bad shape when it is expected that a president be congratulated for doing the most basic part of the job to "uphold and defend".

This rates a "so what". Get back to me when he lobbies congress to repeal gun laws and personally repeals the law by fiat regulations created by his direct reports in various executive branch agencies.

I'm not holding my breath.

Regards

J.R.

46 posted on 05/07/2002 1:07:49 PM PDT by NMC EXP
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To: Huck
It's a question worth exploring. And it is important to remember that having mutiple parties and european type coalitions is only one possible outcome. It may be that one of the current parties would go away. I think that is the most likely outcome, but it's only a speculation. Political parties were not part of the founders plan in any case.

Third parties have good record in pushing agendas. Not all of them good. The most successful third party in history never elected anyone but saw their whole agenda enacted. The Socialist workers party.

It can work for good as well as the bad that they did.

I still maintain that there are more similarities than differences, and that those are more of scope and detail than of substance. Oh well, ya take good news where you can find it these days. Regards

47 posted on 05/07/2002 1:09:05 PM PDT by Protagoras
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To: Huck
Huck said: "I hope I remember instances like this 2nd amendment issue to help me swallow a vote for a big government glad hander like GWB. He's the better choice, and he may be the best we can do under current circumstances (the will of the people being what it is.)"

When the time comes that nobody running for office would dare challenge the right to keep and bear arms, you may safely choose a different single issue on which to focus.

Our winner-takes-all system insures that we will only have two parties. Until the Democrat party ( the party of Feinstein, Schumer, Boxer, and Kennedy ) is dead, you must vote against it.

48 posted on 05/07/2002 1:09:17 PM PDT by William Tell
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To: William Tell
This won't work. The machine gun is clearly of a type which is useful to a militia. Suggesting that one may disarm the militia because criminals might find firearms useful is ridiculous and certainly not a narrow limitation, given that virtually every soldier is trained and equipped with such a firearm.
Furthermore, the limitations on machineguns are written as tax laws granting the government the power to refuse to accept the tax. That is ridiculous treatment of a Constitutional right. There are some interesting decisions ahead.

I agree. I really hope that SCOTUS ignores the briefs and hears the cases. First and formost the GCA and the Firearm Owners Protection act of 1986 are unconstitutional. True, gov't can tax machine guns but they cannot prevent ownership of newly mfr'd weapons as they have done since 1986. They can require certain safeguards for the general protection of society but they cannot legally prevent ownership. SCOTUS has ruled this in past cases. This is merely a minor victory in an attempt to please both sides of the argument. Should SCOTUS accept both cases & rule in favor, the Feds would have some real logistic problems on their hands, (and I'd have me a new H&K MP5 ;)

49 posted on 05/07/2002 1:09:35 PM PDT by chuknospam
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To: GeneD
Solicitor General Olson urged the Supreme Court to turn down both appeals. He said that even accepting an individual right to bear arms, the application of the laws at issue in both cases reflected the kind of narrowly tailored restrictions by which that right could reasonably be limited. Consequently, there was no warrant for the court to take either case, the briefs said.

Is this good news or not?

50 posted on 05/07/2002 1:17:34 PM PDT by Eagle Eye
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To: NMC EXP
This rates a "so what". Get back to me when he lobbies congress to repeal gun laws and personally repeals the law by fiat regulations created by his direct reports in various executive branch agencies.

Agreed. While it does re-affirm Ashcroft's stated support of RKBA, in substance it appears to amount to no more than legal opinions of Justice Department lawyers attached to a couple of briefs. There is nothing here than can't be undone by dissenting opinions attached to briefs submitted by a future administration.

51 posted on 05/07/2002 1:19:48 PM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: justshutupandtakeit; texasforever; roscoe
How could this be? I am told all Republicans and RATS are just the same -[Rinos like me are]- freedom-hating anti-Constitutionalists. Could that be a Bill of Goods?

----------------------------------

Not at all, as you can see by the correction made necessary by your self delusion.

This 'decision' does however take the wind out of your fellas ludicrous contention that 'states rights' can overrule the 2nd amendment. -- Unless you were giving us your own bill of goods.

52 posted on 05/07/2002 1:33:52 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
Where does article mention state law?
53 posted on 05/07/2002 1:37:22 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Wild Irish Rogue
Don't worry the Bush Bashers will be out in force!!!
54 posted on 05/07/2002 1:41:22 PM PDT by OldFriend
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To: tpaine
Ah, my favorite lyin' fool.

Never have I said anything about States' Rights over-ruling the 2d amendment. That is just one more lie.

It is obvious that the 2d is a catagorical statement not limited in its application, like the first, to Congress. But I wouldn't expect you to comprehend something so subtle.

55 posted on 05/07/2002 1:41:29 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit
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To: MCRD
I wonder if John Ashcroft had beat the widow Carnahan if Pres. Bush would have found someone as strong as Ashcroft is on the 2nd Amendment and if he did would that person have been confirmed. The libertarians on this forum can bitch and moan all they want about Pres. Bush but if he (and Ashcroft) are willing to fight hard for the 2nd Amendment then they have done enough for me! 10X BANG

Well, there are several things here. Had Ashcroft won, the Senate would have stayed GOP just as it was in 2000 and Hatch would have chaired the Judiciary and the GOP would have had a one vote edge on the committee. Whomever Bush sent up would have been quickly confirmed (after minimal hearings-- Hatch would have held the gavel).

Had Ashcroft won, Talent likely would have won as well. Bush would have been free to choose Ashcroft as AG and Talent could have chosen Roy Blunt to succeed him.

Had Bush chosen someone else, possible choices would have been former House Judiciary member and failed senate candidate and pro-gun Bill McCollum, current Judiciary chair and pro-gun F. James Sensenbrenner, pro-CCW Frank Keating or pro-gun Mark Racicot.

56 posted on 05/07/2002 1:43:15 PM PDT by GraniteStateConservative
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To: Diddle E. Squat
What a coincidence. A journalist with the name Greenhouse working for the New York Times. Certainly not an indicator of any liberal bias, no?


She is a very good reporter. One of the few there who does straight reporting and understands her beat completely. Over the years, I have found her reports on Supreme Court cases to be quite good. Because, unlike some "reporters," it seems she actually reads the Court's opinions before writing about them.

57 posted on 05/07/2002 1:43:44 PM PDT by Doug Fiedor
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To: GeneD
I hope their brief concluded with a well deserved "DUH!!"

Which brings me to a point I've always wondered about: Why do lawyers use so many pairs of briefs in a single day that they need a case to carry them all? And, is the case compartmentalized inside to keep the dirty separate from the clean?

58 posted on 05/07/2002 1:48:24 PM PDT by Still Thinking
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To: William Tell
"Perhaps the "compassion" evidenced in some recent legislation is a distraction intended for those easily distracted by shiny objects. Once some of the pillars of the Constitution are repaired, the time may come when the limits of the "commerce clause" can be examined."

William Tell- Thou hast nailed it! My hat is off to thee, Sir.

59 posted on 05/07/2002 1:49:43 PM PDT by Destructor
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To: Eagle Eye
It's bad news, a cynical ploy made because neither the federal or state political regimes want the 2nd amendment to be 'incorporated' by the 14th. - Which is a very real possibility, and would upset too many applecarts.

-- Ashcrofts 'decision' is in reality a sugar tit distraction, thrown to conservatives in an attempt to forestall further such USSC judgements on individual liberties.

60 posted on 05/07/2002 1:56:11 PM PDT by tpaine
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