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Changing the 2nd Amendment
Seattle Post Intelligencer ^ | May 9, 2002 | Seattle Post Intelligencer Editorial Board

Posted on 05/09/2002 7:02:38 AM PDT by ethical

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To: ethical
The Seattle PI is nothing short of a socialist, communist, pig sucking scum bag, trash talking, liberal loving, homosexual loving rag. It sucks. I refuse to buy it, read it or even acknowledge that piece of crap, along with the Seattle Red Times.
61 posted on 05/09/2002 8:10:24 AM PDT by RetiredArmy
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To: Orangedog
Yes. That has even been pointed out by some liberal observers. The fact of the matter, is that the original premis of Miller-that short barrelled shotguns have no use by the "militia" is false--short barrelled weapons firing multiple projectiles have been used in every war since the invention of firearms--the justices of the Supreme Court must have been unaware of the usage of "trench guns" in WW 1--
62 posted on 05/09/2002 8:10:57 AM PDT by rellimpank
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To: Shooter 2.5
--Amen--
63 posted on 05/09/2002 8:12:54 AM PDT by rellimpank
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To: StriperSniper
This is one method of attack on the control types thinking I never see. If it has been settled for their 'numerous decades' they are admitting that it has been changed from what it originally meant. So it boils down to six decades of violating the right the admendment is there to protect.

I used it once in an argument with someone here over the Commerce Clause. They argued that FDR's interpretation was "well settled law" and that under the principle of stare decisis (precedence) we should accept it.

I pointed out that it was "well settled law" for 150 years before FDR screwed with it, and that stare decisis could just as easily be applied to arguments for changing it back. I never did get a reply after that.

64 posted on 05/09/2002 8:12:57 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: tacticalogic
Stare decisis (precedence)

Outstanding point!

65 posted on 05/09/2002 8:14:32 AM PDT by Hunble
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To: Hunble
If they want to change the Constitution, then pass a new Amendment. The formal procedure is very well explained.

Not to go off on a tangent, but the Bill of Rights can not be changed. The Constitution can not be ammended in a way that negates Amendments 1-10. This was understood for hundreds of years.

66 posted on 05/09/2002 8:15:13 AM PDT by FreeTally
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To: AdA$tra
Kansas: The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security; but standing armies, in time of peace, are dangerous to liberty, and shall not be tolerated, and the military shall be in strict subordination to the civil power. Bill of Rights, § 4 (enacted 1859, art. I, § 4).

I called the NRA and asked if they were going to pursue a lawsuit in the states, such as Kansas, similar to the one that is going on right now in Ohio. They stated that they are going to see how the Ohio lawsuit is ruled before they make any decisions. It's pretty aggravating to have to wait for every step, but at least the steps are in our direction.

67 posted on 05/09/2002 8:15:25 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5
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To: ethical
.....reaffirm the position that the Constitution guarantees only a collective right to guns through state and federal militias, not an individual's absolute right.

"Who would have guessed that the shots heard 'round the world 225 years ago would fall on deaf ears in a nation now more sympathetic to the gun-grabbing Redcoat than the gun-bearing rebel?
-Michelle Malkin"

68 posted on 05/09/2002 8:16:16 AM PDT by Gun142
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To: FreeTally
The Constitution can not be ammended in a way that negates Amendments 1-10.

Good point, but explain Prohibition.

69 posted on 05/09/2002 8:18:04 AM PDT by Hunble
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To: alex
you sure have that right! these people do not deserve to have freedom!
70 posted on 05/09/2002 8:20:12 AM PDT by christine
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To: Hunble
"Reading that altered Constitution does express the basic point of "WE THE PEOPLE...""

Good point. The Militia just didn't wake up one morning and decide to authorize itself to arm itself. That authorization came from We The People, collectively and individually. . . and We The People could not authorize a group to arm itself unless that right was inherent with We The People, individually. Cops are an extension of We The People as well. The only reason they are armed is because We The People authorized them to be armed. And again, We The People could not arm the cops unless we had that right to begin with . . . collectively and individually.

As one of We The People, I don't remember ever giving up the right to defend myself when and where necessary. On the contrary, it will always be my personal responsibility to protect myself, and not rely on someone who is far from the scene when and if my life is endangered. Otherwise, I would not have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

So the entire issue of gun control rests on a false premise . . . that your right to life is dependant upon the nearness of someone else who is armed who will protect your life. And that is clearly a pile of B.S.

71 posted on 05/09/2002 8:20:23 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: ethical
Typical liberal jihadist thinking...once we win, it should never be questioned again.
72 posted on 05/09/2002 8:24:58 AM PDT by Woahhs
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To: ethical
I don't get all this hand wringing over the "intent" of the founders, regarding the 2nd. Why don't people, ANYBODY, HELLO SCOTUS, just check with other sources freaking WRITTEN by those same GREAT MEN? If you do, then you would CLEARLY see that the right to firearms was meant as an individual right. CLEARLY, its not even close.
73 posted on 05/09/2002 8:25:32 AM PDT by Paradox
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To: boris
HMMM...in my copy the 2nd Amendment has 3 comma's....
74 posted on 05/09/2002 8:26:07 AM PDT by goodnesswins
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To: FreeTally
Not to go off on a tangent, but the Bill of Rights can not be changed. The Constitution can not be ammended in a way that negates Amendments 1-10. This was understood for hundreds of years.

We don't really need amendments anymore anyway, since FDR figured out we can just change the meaning of the words in the original to make it say whatever we want. /sarcasm

75 posted on 05/09/2002 8:27:09 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: steve-b
You're absolutely right. As the 5th circuit said in Emerson, the Miller decision didn't really address the question of individual vs. collective right and to the extent that it even approached the issue it tended to support the individual rights position.

These guys read a sysnopsis of Miller or what some legal service says about it and they don't read the case.

76 posted on 05/09/2002 8:27:49 AM PDT by sailor4321
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To: rellimpank
The fact of the matter, is that the original premis of Miller-that short barrelled shotguns have no use by the "militia" is false-

No argument there. What I was trying to focus attention on was that if this is how the dems and their ilk want to play it, fine....that means that the ban on all of the semi-automatic weapons and high capacity magazines that was passed in the 90's is unconstitutional because of Miller. Therefore these "assault weapons" (the clueless gun-grabbers don't even know what a true assault weapon is) are perfectly legal to buy, sell and own. They can't have it both ways, i.e. Miller says assault weapons are permissable under the 2nd amendment.

You made a good point about shotguns being used in WWI. I'm sure the Germans had no problem understanding that those are quite usefull in combat...after getting a chest full of buck-shot or 12 gauge slugs.

77 posted on 05/09/2002 8:28:08 AM PDT by Orangedog
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To: Orangedog
No, it was "not within judicial notice" that such a weapon is associated with preservation of a well-regulated militia.

The reason it was not within notice, is because the defense didn't show up for the trial, and so it was (lying sack of S**t) government revenue agents, vs. nobody.

78 posted on 05/09/2002 8:29:07 AM PDT by coloradan
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To: Hunble
Good point, but explain Prohibition.

Show me where the production and sale of alcohol is specifically mentioned in the BoR.

To be more to the point, new amendments can not be made that would say things such as "This is a repeal of the 2nd amendment" or "The right of the people to be secure.....can be infringed". The BoR protects natural rights and is not an enumeration of rights, as stated by the 9th and 10th amendments. The right to manbufacture and sell alcohol would have been one of the rights "retained by the States, or the people". The interpretation of the "interstate commerce clause" is probably the justification as to why the Federal governement claimed jurisdiction to ammend the Constitution to prohibt alcohol.

79 posted on 05/09/2002 8:29:55 AM PDT by FreeTally
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To: christine11
I propose a new Constitutional Amendment:

Socialists (Democrats) are not allowed to have any weapons.

Simple and to the point. It also allows "the people" to maintain the militia in these times of terrorists attacks upon America.

Monorities in the inner cities? - nope!

Liberal reporters? - nope!

Talk show hosts (Rosie?) - nope!

Cops who vote for Socialists? - nope!

Of course, once these ignorant people realize that their life is in danger and nobody will protect them, perhaps they will switch how they vote.

80 posted on 05/09/2002 8:30:47 AM PDT by Hunble
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