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Fortuyn favoured depraved
Scotsman ^

Posted on 05/16/2002 11:21:38 AM PDT by VinnyTex

Scotland on Sunday   
Sun 12 May 2002

Fortuyn favoured depraved

MARCELLO MEGA AND JUSTIN SPARKS

PIM Fortuyn, the charismatic right-wing Dutch politician murdered last week was a powerful advocate or
paedophilia, Scotland on Sunday can reveal.

His controversial views on race, immigration, liberalisation of drug laws and his open homosexuality were well-known. But his approval of paedophilia, while not a secret, was ignored by Dutch journalists covering his election campaign.

Fortuyn stood to gain up to 20% of the vote in Wednesday's election and his list is expected to gain thousands of extra votes.

Ireen Van Engelen, an anti-paedophile campaigner in Holland, said: "I have been writing to journalists around the country for months as Fortuyn's popularity grew. I was asking them to challenge him on his views about paedophilia. But none of them dared. I also wrote to ministers, but none of them were interested. It's a disgrace.

"It is strange that they could criticise him, quite rightly, for being racist, but were unwilling to raise this other matter. I can't say for sure that he was a paedophile himself, but he was certainly an advocate for adult-child sex."

Van Engelen cites a column Fortuyn wrote for the Dutch current affairs magazine, Elsevier, in 1999. It was so on-message for pro-paedophile campaigners that it was reproduced by Koinos, a magazine for homosexual paedophiles.

In his article, Fortuyn wrote: "Paedophilia is just like hetero and homosexuality. It is something that is in the genes. There is little if anything that you can do about it or against it. You are who you are? sooner or later the proclivity makes its irresistible appearance. It is not any more curable than hetero or homosexuality."

The column concludes: "The law philosopher and paedophile [Edward] Brongersma, for years senator of the Labour party, spent his life campaigning for understanding of the paedophile fellow man. He launched this effort fearlessly after serving a sentence for sexual harassment of a minor. The minor in question had not considered it harassment, but the justice department judged otherwise in the 1950s.

"In the 1970s and 1980s, Brongersma slowly but surely gained ground. After the invention of the Pill came sexual liberation. Gay sex became accepted, and why then should paedo sex not be allowed ? under the strict condition that the child is willing and that there is no coercion? This enlightened point of view has meanwhile been abandoned, and under the influence of the ologists, the child is defined as totally
devoid of sexual desires, at least where adults are concerned.

"We are far removed from the understanding that Brongersma tried to foster, to our own detriment, for that matter. For everything which can be discussed is in principle also manageable, one would think!"

In the last week, Fortuyn has been lionised in the Dutch media. Thousands of mourners have paid their respects and many more have promised to vote for the list of candidates that still bears his name. In their sense of shock many in Holland have lost sight of Fortuyn's controversial ideas and instead focused on his image as a colourful and entertaining maverick.

"The killing has produced a sort of Dutch 'Diana' effect," said Fred Spier, a social anthropologist at Amsterdam University. "Tens of thousands of people who previously had no sympathy for Mr Fortuyn have joined his supporters all across the country in a mass outpouring of grief. He has turned from the bad man of right-wing politics into a fallen national hero overnight.''

Not only has Fortuyn's death won the sympathy of voters, but it has also served to discredit the mainstream parties, which are being accused of having whipped up a national hate campaign against Fortuyn by 'wrongly' portraying him as a right-wing extremist.

In 1998, Fortuyn published an autobiographical work called Babyboomers, the name given to children born in the post-war years up to 1953. He reveals that he had early sexual experiences with adult males, which he claims to have found pleasurable and exciting. His logic is that because he enjoyed sexual experiences with adult men as a child, it should be legal.

Fortuyn's first experience occurred when he was five years old. "The Dutch soldier asks if I want to see his tent. That's what I want. I like it and they all are sleeping on the ground in a sleeping-bag. I ask if it is hard and cold to sleep on the ground. Oh no, come here. Together we crawl in his sleeping-bag. The soldier asks my name and I ask his name.

?He is called Arie and he asks if I like that name. Yes, I think that's a nice name and I lie beside him, nice and warm."

Fortuyn then described a close sexual encounter with the soldier before leaving his sleeping-bag "to go and play outside." He added: "Can I come back tomorrow? Yes, tomorrow I may come back, says Arie."

A few pages later, he describes another incident: "I went to the park for a walk, it was very silent and the sun was shining. On the bench sat a young fellow. I stood still, curious."

Fortuyn relates another sexual encounter - this time in explicit detail. He concludes: "I was frightened and ran away to my home, to my mother. Excited, I ran into the room. My mother looked at me searchingly and asked what had happened. Nothing, of course. Watch out, little man, was the only thing she said. A glass of lemonade made me calm down. Yes, that was exciting."

Most telling is his appraisal of these memories. "In chapter 1 about the 1950s, I wrote about my early sexual experiences, experiences that I see as an enrichment. Today, an experience like that in the ppark could easily lead to a complaint by parents to the police because of paedophilia, and the relevant young man would be in trouble. But why?

"He didn't do me any harm. On the contrary, he showed me something that was incomprehensibly exciting and I could feel and touch it, but today we are ready to interfere with complete teams of professionals. By interfering in such an irritating and grown-up way in the world of children, we make an
enormous problem of something that for a child is no problem at all and is only exciting."

Van Engelen said: "The problem with Pim Fortuyn was that he never grew up. In his mind he stayed a little boy. A lot of Dutch men recognised that. That's what made him so popular, among other things. It's a pity that we no longer have the opportunity to challenge him about these views. He did not seem willing to recognise that a child will be harmed by sex with an adult."


This article:

   http://www.news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?id=513942002

More Far Right in Europe:

   http://www.news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=223

Websites:

  Front National
   http://www.front-national.com/

  L'Humanité (newspaper)
   http://www.humanite.presse.fr/journal/

  Le Figaro (newspaper)
   http://www.lefigaro.fr/

  Le Monde (newspaper)
   http://www.lemonde.fr/

  Parti Communiste Français
   http://www.pcf.fr/

  Parti Socialiste
   http://www.parti-socialiste.fr/

  RPR - Rassemblement pour la République
   http://www.rpr.asso.fr/

  UDF - Union pour la Démocratie Française
   http://www.udf.org/


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: europelist
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To: seamole
"In what way is an ad for Radio FR a comment on ":)"?"

You're entering the discussion at the half-way mark, and not quite understanding what's being said.

summer is asking me to quit posting to her, I am simply saying that I will comment on whatever threads she posts on FR.

So sorry that you don't like the advertisement on the thread, or any of all those other things that you don't like, and it's quite a shame that you will not listen to Radio FR, we'll try to limp along without you.

Radio FreeRepublic is a tool to promote this site that you so freely enjoy (as do the rest of us), and to promote and further the conservative cause, we advertise the shows as best as we can.

BTW, there is no hint of my being a Moderator, there is however, my statement that if she so desires to enter into a flame war with me, I am well prepared to do so, and that if she does so, to stay off the abuse button.

121 posted on 05/16/2002 8:39:40 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: VinnyTex
Well, I assumed that you pimged me because you read something I have written in the past about Pim.

While it appears that many were pinged at random, I will add my two cents. First off, there is a big difference between American Conservatives and European Conservatives... for the most part.

Also, the EU press is whacked at of thier mind. Anyone that deviates the slightest bit from the status quo are branded "Far right," or "Extreminst". As far as I can tell, he was anti-immigration and thus a "Right-Winger". It is really rather pathetic.

I hate to say this but it might serve the the EU right by watching thier continent disintegrate before them. It might do the US good to see FIRSTHAND what happens to them.

As for pinging me, go right ahead. As long as it does not interfere with my plan for world conquest, I'm good with it! :D

122 posted on 05/16/2002 8:45:01 PM PDT by Arioch7
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To: Arioch7
First off, there is a big difference between American Conservatives and European Conservatives

What!!! Is that all you are going to give us?!!!

123 posted on 05/16/2002 8:48:21 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: fortress
Christ died for sinners like him ....and me.

He died for repentant sinners. The willfully reprobate place themselves by their own free will beyond his grace.

So take care not to diminish the glorious sacrifice by suggesting the willfully reprobate must have a place at the table. They do not want a place at the table.

Do not cast precious pearls before swine. The swine are not interested.

124 posted on 05/16/2002 8:51:30 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Arioch7
I didn't ping ya.
125 posted on 05/16/2002 8:53:39 PM PDT by VinnyTex
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To: xm177e2
Kinda hard to support him since he is dead.
126 posted on 05/16/2002 9:01:15 PM PDT by Busywhiskers
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To: Kevin Curry
How do you know if he had not repented like the thief on the cross?
127 posted on 05/16/2002 9:01:42 PM PDT by fortress
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To: xm177e2
Gay sex became accepted, and why then should paedo sex not be allowed ? under the strict condition that the child is willing and that there is no coercion?

Yep, just add incest and bestiality and you have the four legs of the table, it makes a sturdy platform for all iniquities. If you can justify one you can justify them all.

128 posted on 05/16/2002 9:02:09 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: fortress
Which thief?
129 posted on 05/16/2002 9:02:55 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: xm177e2
xm177e2 said in Reply #22:
Yes, several thousand of you. This is an issue that deserves publicity, it is the only time I've ever used this "ultimate list."
Explain to me why the fact that a murdered Dutch homosexual advocated pedophilia is worthy of maximum publicity on an American forum.

The guy is dead and as far as I can determine pedophilia is not a plank in his party's platform.

Are you afraid that some New Ager is going to channel him back to lead his party from beyond the grave?

130 posted on 05/16/2002 9:03:03 PM PDT by quidnunc
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To: Kevin Curry
I don't understand?
131 posted on 05/16/2002 9:04:13 PM PDT by fortress
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To: xm177e2
You pinged? Ping the gang to this thread too: Death of an "Extremist": John O'Sullivan on Pim Fortuyn & Realignments
132 posted on 05/16/2002 9:04:43 PM PDT by cornelis
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To: Clint N. Suhks
Yep, just add incest and bestiality and you have the four legs of the table, it makes a sturdy platform for all iniquities. If you can justify one you can justify them all.

It's a warning some of us have been raising at FR for a few years. The pro-sodomy libertarians have laughed us to scorn for suggesting such a thing. Now it appears that "progressives" such as Pim Fortuyn and Peter Singer were just way out ahead of the libertarian sheep who post here--trailblazers for moral depravity and sexual deviance.

In due time, the sheep will walk that trail.

133 posted on 05/16/2002 9:09:11 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: Kevin Curry
OK. I guess I better quote my source:

Luke 23:39-43
39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!" 40 But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong." 42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." 43 Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." (NIV)

134 posted on 05/16/2002 9:11:58 PM PDT by fortress
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To: fortress
There were two thiefs at Golgotha. How do you know Fortuyn wasn't like the one you are forgetting?

The "judge not" proscription may be just a validly applied to judging a man "good" where there is no evidence to support it. Jesus Christ even chastised someone for calling him "good master."

Which state of judgment Pim Fortuyn is in, I do not know for certain. I do know that I would not want to trade places with him on the mere chance that he is in the same circumstances as the repentant thief.

However, I do know better than to suggest that that God's grace may imposed on, and against the will of, a reprobate sinner.

135 posted on 05/16/2002 9:16:38 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: VinnyTex;Cornelis
Oops... I know you did not ping me. It was xml, I just responded to the first post. Well, now you hurt my feelings! You SHOULD have pinged me. :D

Cornelis... you just had to egg me on didn't you. Man, its midnight and I am watching the Rockford Files but I will give it a go at a better explanation.

Conservatives are obviously named Conservatives because they want to conserve something. The difference is in WHAT the two repsctive continents want to conserve. The United States economic system, and indeed the entire Capitalist system is built upon Classical Liberalism that was best summarized in Adam Smith's "Wealth Of NAtions". That is the system that we enjoy today which is unfortunatel under daily assault from our Commie, I mean LIBERAL friends of the US.

European Conservatives are commonly called Fascists because what they seek to conserve is Empire, as in thier empires of the past. I really cant see much difference between a Fascist and a communist but for some strange reason they do. I look upon Fascist governments as a kind of Monarchy and Communist/Socialist governments as a type of Oligarchy. Either way they are both totalitarian regimes and IMHO are diametrically opposed to our own American Right-Wing.

To be sure, some of the pols that the EU press calls "Right-Wing," are indeed like us but since the powers that be over there call ANYONE who disagrees with them "Right-Wing," it gets difficult to tell what the hell is going on over there. They seem to like that in Europe. I think that Sylvio Berlusconi is the closest thing to an American Conservative that I can think of.

I believe it was the economist Frederich Hayek that said that American Conservatives were really Liberals in the truest sense as what WE want to conserve is individual freedom and individual rights.

Nowhere in history has such a government as ours arose... we are not peasants here in the USA, nor are we cogs in some Communist "System," working for the good of the "Collective," ; we are FREE citizens and Europe hates us for it. You see they still have that Royalty/Peasant mentality that are US liberals so desperately try to emulate, IMHO, it is disgusting and an affront to everything I hold dear.

The sad part is that here in the US, we acheived the ideal and ever since the hyenas have been nipping at our heels, trying to drag our grand experiment down and make slaves of us all. I can kind of understand. Freedom is diificult for some people. I just wish they would leave ours alone.

Well, how did I do? The screen is getting blurry but I hope that rant was acceptable. Too tired, no time to check for typos... :D

136 posted on 05/16/2002 9:20:58 PM PDT by Arioch7
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To: Arioch7
I cant help myself...

THIS, "You see they still have that Royalty/Peasant mentality that ARE US liberals so desperately try to emulate, IMHO, it is disgusting and an affront to everything I hold dear."

Should read like THIS, "You see they still have that Royalty/Peasant mentality that OUR US liberals so desperately try to emulate, IMHO, it is disgusting and an affront to everything I hold dear."

Go Rockford!!! :D

137 posted on 05/16/2002 9:23:49 PM PDT by Arioch7
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To: Kevin Curry
Exactly my point. We do not know, what was in his heart by the time he died or even 3 months before he died.
So to call Pim evil because of what he once wrote or did is of no value: We all have sinned and deserve judgement, but by the Grace of God we are saved if we repent and ask God for forgiveness.
138 posted on 05/16/2002 9:26:26 PM PDT by fortress
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To: Kevin Curry
The pro-sodomy libertarians have laughed us to scorn for suggesting such a thing.

Immoral relativist Liberaltarians are not conservatives, let them all move to da Nederlands. There they can smoke pot, do their less than .5 grams possession of heroin and cocaine, visit their favorite prostitutes, sodomize 12 year old boys that give consent and have conjugal visits with their relatives and sheep. Just get them the heck out of the US and make them take their liberal friends with’em.

139 posted on 05/16/2002 9:30:27 PM PDT by Clint N. Suhks
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To: seamole
"seamole, I do not recall flagging you."

Now, be a good seamole and go back to wherever seamoles hole up in until summoned.

Don't forget to bow and walk backwards on your way out.

140 posted on 05/16/2002 9:41:50 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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