Fair Penalties Or Torture? U.N. at Odds With Saudis

The New York Times ^ | 05/19/2002 | ELIZABETH OLSON

[Pokey78]

GENEVA, May 18 — Saudi Arabian diplomats clashed this week with the United Nations Committee Against Torture over whether flogging and the amputation of limbs are violations of an international treaty.

The 10-member committee urged the Saudis to end such corporal punishments, saying they are prohibited under the 1987 Convention Against Torture. This drew an outburst from the Saudi delegates, who said that the committee had no jurisdiction over Shariah, the Islamic legal code derived from the Koran.

"This law has existed for 1,400 years," protested Turki al-Madi, a Saudi diplomat based in Geneva. "And the committee wants to change it. I'm sorry, you cannot."

Saudi Arabia signed the treaty, which forbids torture and other cruel or degrading punishments, more than four years ago. Each of the 129 signatory countries is required to report periodically on the steps it has taken to comply with the convention's requirements.

Shariah law allows amputations for theft, and floggings for certain sexual offenses and drinking alcohol. Other stringent provisions of Shariah, like executing murderers, drug dealers and rapists, do not fall under the torture committee's mandate.

Other Islamic countries, including Libya and Iran, have come up for review, but Peter Thomas Burns, the committee's chairman, said Saudi Arabia was the first country to take the position that Shariah's provisions fall outside the committee's purview, although he added that future "conflicts in interpretation" with other Islamic countries could be expected.

"The committee itself had no doubt that flogging in almost any case constitutes torture," said Mr. Burns, who is also a Canadian law professor. "And amputation of limbs, in every case, would constitute torture under our definitions."

Saudi Arabia maintained that Shariah law prohibits torture and other cruel and degrading treatment, but the committee concluded that the gulf kingdom's "domestic law does not expressly reflect this prohibition" and also maintains that floggings, amputations and other corporal punishments are not torture.

The committee, ending its session on Friday, recommended that Saudi Arabia "re-examine its imposition of corporal punishments that are in breach" of the treaty, and that it ensure that its laws are applied equally regardless of nationality, sex, religious affiliation or other distinctions. This addressed complaints of discrimination against foreigners.

The Saudi delegates said their country had introduced a new criminal code and a new code of criminal procedures, and transferred the authority for its penal correction system to its Ministry of Justice.

But when Mr. Burns tried to discuss the imposition by Shariah courts of floggings and amputations, summary use of force by the religious police and charges of the mistreatment of detainees, Abdulwahab Abdulsalam Attar, the country's ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva and one of the delegates, refused to take part.

"Concerning the application of Islamic Shariah, some bodies have tried to denigrate in an unacceptable way," he said. "It's a question that we refuse to discuss."

He said Saudi Arabia had signed onto the antitorture convention with the understanding that none of its provisions would be used to contravene Shariah law.

Said one Saudi delegate: "You can't say cutting off a hand is so severe. It harms only the criminal who harms society. Shariah protects society, not the criminal."

[mdittmar]

Treaties smeaties,when your busted over there....

Saudi Man Beheaded for Raping a Man

[A Navy Vet]

This is fun watching the progressive utopian Marxists and the 7th century barbarians go at it...heh,heh. Wonder if the UN will propose a resolution against the Saudis, like they do the Israelis on a monthly basis.

[Larry Lucido]

Hmmm. New World Order v. the Old, Old World Order. Guess I'll have to sit this one out.

[Shermy]

The 10-member committee urged the Saudis to end such corporal punishments, saying they are prohibited under the 1987 Convention Against Torture. This drew an outburst from the Saudi delegates, who said that the committee had no jurisdiction over Shariah, the Islamic legal code derived from the Koran.

The globalists want us to disregard our own Constitution. Join the club.

[gitmo]

I was torn on the thread about the French VS Greenpeace.

Now it's the UN VS the Saudis.

I wonder if we could see a fight between Hillary and Osama?

[MissAmericanPie]

Ain't it heck trying to force a round peg into a square hole? Or make a silk purse out of a sows ear?

[contessa machiaveli]

this is almost as much fun as the iran/iraq war.

[Paleo Conservative]

I was in favor of the Iran Iraq War. Too bad it eneded.

[watchin]

The committee, ending its session on Friday, recommended that Saudi Arabia "re-examine its imposition of corporal punishments that are in breach" of the treaty, and that it ensure that its laws are applied equally regardless of nationality, sex, religious affiliation or other distinctions.

They'll probably reconsider their stand, and rescind these barbaric laws. They'll open their doors to Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and Jews, as a new freedom of religion sees shrines, synagogues, and churches built along side mosques throughout the land. Democratic elections will be closely watched by a truly free press. Sharia law will be repealed, pigs will fly, it will snow in hell, and monkeys will fly out of my butt.

[20yearvet]

"you can't say cutting off a hand is so serere. It harms only the criminal who harms society" You know they may have a point.

[Blackyce]

Yes, make the criminal incapable of productivity. That will definitely be a boon to society.


and they wonder why they remain the dregs of world society.