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The Mistaken Revolution - Vatican II
PipeBombNews ^ | May 20 , 2002 | William A. Mayer Jr.

Posted on 05/21/2002 10:07:10 AM PDT by johnqueuepublic

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To: NWU Army ROTC
Interested to hear how you would propose to fix the problems that have arisen (I have a few ideas, but probably wouldn't go over to well). God Bless

Hey Mr. NWU Army ROTC - Thanks for the interest! Here's what I would do if I were Pope to solve this homosexual molestation problem. - 1) Make a strong and inerrant statement of Catholic (and Christian and scriptural) doctrine regarding homosexuality - that the homosexual inclination is intrinsically disordered, and that homosexual acts are sins against God. Require that that doctrine be actively taught and affirmed by every seminarian and priest in the Church; 2) Throw out any seminarian or priest or bishop or Cardinal who refused to actively affirm and support that doctrine; 3) Throw out any priest or bishop or cardinal who engaged in unrepented and unforgiven homosexual activity, or who engaged in frequent repented and forgiven homosexual activity; 4) Throw out any seminarian or priest who made homosexual advances toward anyone - especially new vocations; 5) Reduce over time the number of homosexual priests in the priesthood to at the very least the same percentage of homosexuals in the population as a whole (about 2,3%) - and require of those remaining that they understand that their desires are disordered and are not to be celebrated or pushed on others; 6) Take control of the selection of new priests out of the hands of secular psychologists; 7) Forbid all priests from being alone with male minors; 8) Make clear that any reasonable accusation of child molestation will be made known to criminal authorities and that the Church will NOT protect from criminal law any priest found guilty of sexual molestation; 9) Seek forgiveness from the laity; 10) Repent before God and seek forgiveness from HIM myself for having allowed thousands of teenage boys to have been molested and raped.

Well, I think that would do for a start.

101 posted on 05/21/2002 6:54:29 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: sinkspur
Can anybody produce definitive proof that we haven't ALWAYS had a "queer Church", the only difference being the sexual abuse of minors was covered up and not reported?

I can't provide such evidence. But whether that way just recently or in all the past, I still object.

102 posted on 05/21/2002 6:55:49 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: NWU Army ROTC
I consider myself an Orthodox Catholic and I think sadly, the changes of Vatican II while making some things easier, has utlimately hurt what it means to be a Roman Catholic in the World today.

I agree.

103 posted on 05/21/2002 7:19:27 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
I agree, and I like what you propose. But what concerns me, at times even more than this scandal, is the increasingly progressive elements of the Church that are moving the Church away from its call. I spent four years in a Jesuit High School, and they are superb educators, but their theology is far from orthodoxy. I guess, how would you deal with the other problems, decreasing church attendance, the cafeteria catholics (those that stray from the rules). Your plan is a start and I like most of it, but their are other problems that I fear will go untreated while treating this one. Your opinion? God BLess
104 posted on 05/21/2002 7:25:57 PM PDT by StAthanasiustheGreat
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To: NWU Army ROTC
But how does one go about moving back to a more conservative, orthodox, traditionalism that was lost after Vatican II.

Sorry Mr. NWU Army ROTC. I didn't read your question carefully and submitted an answer to a different problem! - I think that there are two things one could do immediately to help return to a more conservative, orthodox traditionalism. First, offer more conservative priests and masses to those who want them. There seems to be a tremendous hunger for such among many in America. At the very least, this would help to counterbalance the more liberal cohorts with the church. Second, with regard to authentic Catholic belief - simply require that cardinals, bishops, priests know and actively affirm authentic Catholic teachings. And provide immediate negative consequences for those who don't. This would take many years of struggle, but needs to be done. Rome has had an almost hands-off approach to the American Catholic Church, with disastrous results.

105 posted on 05/21/2002 7:26:04 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
I spent four years in a Jesuit High School, and they are superb educators, but their theology is far from orthodoxy.

I've never understood the allowance of debate on settled matters of doctrine within the Church. One can disagree on policies (whether or not to have women priests), and on some fuzzy theological matters. But when you have certain priests in the United States teaching things like: 1) Jesus is not really divine, 2) homosexual acts and premarital sex are fine and dandy, 3) the Eucharist is not really the body and blood of Jesus, etc. etc., you have priests who are not really Catholic. All it takes is a determined authority (the Pope or his deleguees) to root out such un-Catholic elements. Unfortunately, we have not had such an authority. At the end of the day, the Pope himself does not have the power to change matters of scripture- and tradition-based doctrine. But he certainly does have the power to insist on faithfulness to that doctrine.

106 posted on 05/21/2002 7:33:43 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: NWU Army ROTC
Ah, one thing I forgot. I believe, humbly, that many in the hierarchy of the Catholic Church suffer from the pride of wanting the affirmation of intellectuals, and also the pride from wanting to have growing parishes. Far better to teach Catholic truth and lose some parishioners than to slide away from such truth in order to gain more adherents. At the end of that road are 'churches' like the Unitarian Church, who cannot tell you one thing they actually believe in.
107 posted on 05/21/2002 7:40:05 PM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: yendu bwam
Your post is a must read. You have ennumerated the results of the homosexualization of the priesthood very accurately and completely. Thankyou.
108 posted on 05/21/2002 8:15:35 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: sinkspur
After you provide your proof,you are the one bringing it up post after post,thread after thread.It is only lately that I noted that you have not given one shred of evidence to support your very serious accusation.

Hint:Do you know anything about initiations into boys' clubs and fraternities and other men/male/macho bonding societies?You might try to connect dots.

109 posted on 05/21/2002 8:26:46 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: Bellarmine
>>>>Yes, and the schismatic Catholic Patriotic Association in China.

Have any of them been publicly excommunicated? That seems like such a difficult situation, given that so many Bishops are a part of both the CPA and the underground Church.

patent

110 posted on 05/21/2002 10:31:34 PM PDT by patent
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To: yendu bwam
"First, offer more conservative priests and masses to those who want them."

A good idea but how would it work? Would those masses and priests be openly designated by the Bishops as "conservative" havens? I doubt it. We have to face it. The struggle between liberal and conservative Catholics is here to stay. I see no end to it short of schism or some kind of huge chastisement in the form of a natural or man made disaster.

111 posted on 05/21/2002 11:22:19 PM PDT by Theresa
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To: proud to be breathing
You need to reread the article you linked to. I didn't say that the Church wasn't at all responsible for the abuses that occured. That article backs up my point that the Inquisitions were abused by secular authorities. And I've NEVER heard anything about the persecution of Jews. And if it happened, what's your point? What does that have to do with the Church of today?
112 posted on 05/22/2002 4:48:05 AM PDT by GenXFreedomFighter
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To: johnqueuepublic
Excellent article.
113 posted on 05/22/2002 4:51:41 AM PDT by Orual
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To: yendu bwam
And what body parts have you removed to keep you free from sin? ;-) Remember, self-mutilation is a mortal sin.

That passage does illustrate the seriousness with which we should pursue our salvation, and you're right; many of us do not treat it with the utmost seriousness as we should.

114 posted on 05/22/2002 4:53:49 AM PDT by GenXFreedomFighter
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To: GenXFreedomFighter
And what body parts have you removed to keep you free from sin? ;-) Remember, self-mutilation is a mortal sin.

I have never had the courage or strength to lead the truly pure and Christian life that Jesus outlined. For instance, I (and most people I know) have not given up their wealth to follow him. At the end of the day, I do take Jesus' words as the words and intent of God - even more than the Catholic Church's interpretation of those words.

115 posted on 05/22/2002 5:01:36 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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To: Theresa
I see no end to it short of schism or some kind of huge chastisement in the form of a natural or man made disaster.

The Pope really does have the power to require that bishops toe the line on established Catholic doctrine. He has not used that power, for whatever reason (which I do not understand). The other two alternatives are schism, as you say, or just muddling through with assaults from all sorts of alternative doctrines. I'd definitely vote for the first, but suspect we'll get the third.

116 posted on 05/22/2002 5:16:18 AM PDT by yendu bwam
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Comment #117 Removed by Moderator

To: allend
There is no magisterial teaching for this, but there is a pretty good consensus that Mary did, in fact, grow old and die like everyone else.

What about the Assumption? I know it's a relatively new teaching, but isn't that the Church's official position on what happened to Mary?

118 posted on 05/22/2002 7:43:00 AM PDT by GenXFreedomFighter
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Comment #119 Removed by Moderator

To: GenXFreedomFighter
What about the Assumption? I know it's a relatively new teaching, but isn't that the Church's official position on what happened to Mary?

The Church takes no position on whether Mary actually experienced death. It seems unlikely though, since natural death is a consequence of sin. Anyway, the Church merely says that "at the end of her earthly life", Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven.

No town has ever claimed to be where she is buried, as they have with countless other saints.

120 posted on 05/22/2002 9:22:59 AM PDT by Steve0113
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