The Mistaken Revolution - Vatican II

PipeBombNews ^ | May 20 , 2002 | William A. Mayer Jr.

[yendu bwam]

I reserve judgment on Job's historical existence, but not on the moral and spiritual lesson the book teaches. I believe in the actuality of Moses, because I believe that a real, living God acted in history, not in fable, and therefore spoke to and through particular people.

Very well put.

[annalex]

our political disputes today will be looked upon as being as arcane as this stuff is, 1000 years from now?

As a libertarian I believe they definitely will be as both major parties expand the goverment as the expense of the individual, while disagreeing on minutia.

[redhead]

If Peter was the bishop of Rome, and it's HIS bones under the Basilica of St. Peter in Rome, and Jesus gave Peter the keys to the Kingdom...? Or am I not seeing all the details here?

[yendu bwam]

The real battleground is the seminaries, for it is here where young men intent on devoting their lives to God and duty to the Church will be trained, but it is becoming increasingly clear that young straight men of conservative beliefs are being turned away, in droves, by an entrenched pro-homosexual minority that is intent on promoting ultra-modernist theology and driving straights away:

The Church cannot long survive the promotion of those to the priesthood who seek to undermine Catholic belief. This is truly a diabolic cancer which needs to be cleanly and fearlessly excised. Further, the Church should immediately begin an aggressive outreach to those young straight men of authentic belief who have been shunned.

[B Knotts]

I have heard this bandied about much recently, is there any (a sincere question, not an attempt to inflame) objective evidence for it?

Yes. Read this book:

Goodbye! Good Men

It's all in there, and well-documented.

[proud to be breathing]

You need to read a little history. This is a brief history of the Inqusition The Spanish Inqusition involved the forced exile of several hundred thousand jews, the torture, and burning at the stake of vast numbers of jews,and jewish children over the age of 6 being taken from their parents and given to christian families to be raised as christians

[Bellarmine]

Thanks to the mandatory retirement age for bishops and the age limit for voting by cardinals imposed by Paul VI, he was able to shape the episcopate to his liking. This has also been the case for JPII. All but 10 of the voting age cardinals were appointed by JPII. I would guess that a similarly high number of the bishops were approved by him also, given his long term in office.

[annalex]

Any documentation?

No, I just read it in FR a while back. But the view is not illogical: if Mary was distinct from the rest of the humanity in her sinless essence, then how can we say that Christ is fully human?

Naturally, modern Orthodox just like modern Catholics are inclined to breeze past these theological hurdles without being able to resolve them and even without knowing they exist.

[johnqueuepublic]

Red I think that places you at the head of the class.

[maryz]

All but 10 of the voting age cardinals were appointed by JPII.

But who originally made them bishops? -- I just read on another thread that Paul VI made Law a bishop. And isn't it true that since Vatican II names of bishops (in America anyway) are proposed by the Conference of Bishops?

[johnqueuepublic]

You really dont have to read the book its all summed up here, which is taken from this article:

”There are numerous reports that mental health professionals who do not support the teachings of the Catholic Church on sexuality have been chosen to evaluate candidates for the priesthood and reject candidates who do accept the Church's teachings on the grounds they are 'rigid'. There are also reports that some mental health professionals do not report homosexual attractions and conflicts in candidates for the priesthood to diocesan officials or religious superiors.

"Mental health professionals chosen to evaluate candidates for the priesthood ... should be Catholics in good standing who support the Church's teaching on sexuality, life, contraception, homosexuality, celibacy of the priesthood, the Ordination on only men, and the hierarchical structure of the Church. ... Non-Catholics and Catholics who do not support the teaching of the Church should not be employed in this task." Catholic Medical Association, "Statement to U.S. Bishops" (11/1999)

The Church has already admitted as such.

[johnqueuepublic]

You have fallen into a trap, just because you cant explain it doesn't make it incorrect.

Its called faith, and it has always been a part of Catholic orthodoxy that Jesus was FULLY God and man, that is key he therefore had a totally free choice to escape his eventual end, he could have answered the bad thief by removing himself from the cross but chose not to.

[annalex]

which [the original graces] these days we get at baptism.

But we are not free from sin upon baptism like Mary was upon the annunciation, are we? It's not a loaded question. Like many Catholics, I don't know my own theology.

[annalex]

What trap?

I don't disagree with you at all. I relayed the question as I read it on FR, posted by an Orthodox. The question makes sense and I don't know the complete answer (allend gave an answer to which I have a follow up question, see above). However, the fully divine nature of Christ is not part of the question; His humanity is.

[j.havenfarm]

Well, let me wade in here. Depsite the fact that I am a Catholic, I've quite a bit of material on the subject. Yes, stuff less biased than Gipper's account. It is more than obvious that, for centuries the Orthodox chafed under the Peope's claim of being "primus inter pares," that is, "first maong equals." I think the fairest and most accurate way to view the split is that there came a fork in the road. Both the Latin and Greek traditions dated back to the very earliest times, and to suggest that either came into being in 1054 is just silly. The two churches have lifted the mutual excommunications, and each recognizes the validity of the sacraments of the other.

[born yesterday]

by an entrenched pro-homosexual minority that is intent on promoting ultra-modernist theology and driving straights away:

I have heard this bandied about much recently, is there any (a sincere question, not an attempt to inflame) objective evidence for it?

It seems to me that far greater numbers of homosexuals now become priests than they number in the general population. While these percentages vary, depending who counts, every study shows this increased number of homosexuals coming into the priesthood.