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I'm glad Fusario was the one brought up. It was him that was the big problem in Michigan with his lies that I mentioned before. I can't speak for other states, but I can speak for my own since I do go behind the scenes sometimes here. I'm on a first name basis with my reps, and I've been to the capitol several times. We have a lobbiest here in Lansing for our org(MCRGO)(GOA doesn't).

If GOA didn't bash pro-gun bills since they weren't good enough(Vermont or NOTHING), then I wouldn't have as much of a problem. I want better than Vermont carry(Vermont with a premption on local municipalities), but it's not going to happen...YET. I want incrementalism(like the ASD'ers have done) toward Vermont Carry. Also, why do they have to lie? Is the truth that painful for them? When the NRA is wrong, I'll say so. When MCRGO is wrong, I'll say so.

Why? Because the third party candidate "can't win," of course, and the NRA lobbyist's real game is to "retain access" to the GOP incumbent after helping him win re-election. Why insist on the plain language of the Second Amendment ("shall not be infringed") if the end result is fewer cocktail party invitations next year? That could make your organization appear "out of the mainstream."

Third party candidates 'can't win', because they HAVEN'T won. When have they won? Twice. Angus King in Maine, and a celebrity in Jesse Ventura. What about the house and senate? Bernie Sanders and James Jeffords are dems(caucuses with them). There are no 3rd party winners in the state house or senate in Michigan. Where are the results.

MCRGO doesn't have grades, but we have endorsements. We are a little tougher than NRA gradewise, although we are affiliated with them. We say endorsement or no endorsement. If one isn't perfect but better than the other, sometimes we begrudgingly endorse the better one. If both are the same, we stay out.

Fusario seems more obsessed with the NRA than getting good legislation passed. What has GOA done since 1998? One bill that passed the house. That's it.

I want results. If a pro-2a org doesn't get results, they aren't worth my support. I see a lot of noise from GOA and Fusario. What have they really done outside of give me a headache in Michigan when I'm explaining the real story to angry emails or messages on the MCRGO message boards.

MCRGO and NRA get good results. I can carry in Michigan. Thank you NRA. Thank you MCRGO. Screw GOA. They weren't at the capitol. They didn't lobby. In fact, they fought us.

I tend to be a little bitter about that.

I've lobbied the local legislature here quite a bit. I lobbied for a local group (before they went belly up due to poor management by their executive director, but that's another story) for a couple of years. I know for a fact that the NRA lobbies for gun control. I was present when one of our progun legislators tipped us to the fact that Randy Kozuch (the NRA's main state level lobbyist) was going around to the anti-gunners in the state House, and offering them a compromise on trigger locks if they would allow the irrelevant Eddy Eagle program to be taught in schools if the principles wanted it. Well hello. If the principles want it they can get Eddy Eagle in now.

The deal the NRA was brokering was no opposition to trigger locks from them if the EE thing got past. GOA and Fusaro helped us mainly by providing a mailing list of GOA members and others so that we could sent out a mailing with post cards to be sent back to the legislators. Our state level mailing list of CSG members was only about 3900 at its peak, so the extra names came in handy for putting pressure on the legislature. SO I had a considerably different experience vis a vie GOA and NRA than you did. Eventually this died, and after a while, the NRA denied that it ever happened.

In addition, the NRA actively supported the instant background check at the state level. I tried to convince their state lobbyist, Bill Davis, that it was a bad thing because it 1 changed a right to a permission and 2 it enables the government to keep a permanent computerized record of gun owners as in registration. He's not a bad guy, but he wouldn't stray form the official NRA line that instant background checks are desirable. I said before and I'll say again. what the NRA says to its members and what goes on behind the scenes are two different things. The NRA never met a gun control law that it didn't end up liking.

You raise a good point, but I think that the issue is not whether the 3rd party candidate actually wins or not. The issue is whether whoever does win knows that the gun owners can turn them out. If we show that we're not afraid to sack Republicans, even Democrats will think twice before crossing us.