[PokeyJoe]

We think that we agree - in that God (Heavenly Father) doesn't want us to fail, and will provide help when needed - but that there are some who will eat the apple because they want to eat the apple. (if you know what I mean)

[Savage Beast]

"God (Heavenly Father) doesn't want us to fail"

If he does, we might as well hang it up.

"and will provide help when needed "

If He won't, nothing will.

"- but that there are some who will eat the apple because they want to eat the apple."

I definitely know what you mean. It's hard to imagine that anyone would knowingly turn away from God...but...it's naive to think otherwise, isn't it? To think, "I never could," is hubris.

Thanks, Joe. Your ideas are very good ones.