Learning While Black [Kid starts a fight at school. Kid's dad, angry his son got punished, sues.]

http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,238611,00.html ^ | June 5, 2002 | Jodie Morse

[WyCoKsRepublican]

Once again, the Black is the victim, regardless of the facts......Boot the worthless thug out of school, permanently..........Yo!

[summer]

I'd have suspended his butt for sauntering into class on his own schedule. I would have suspended him for cussing. He would have straightened up or reached the maximum number of suspensions leading to expulsion before the fight ever took place if the teachers and administration hadn't bent over backwards to keep him in school.

You raise good points here, but understand this: teachers do not have the power to suspend a student. The rules of suspension, and what student misconduct qualifies as leading to suspension, are rules designed without input from teachers. And, those rules do not usually include the infractions you mentioned, about being late or cussing.

However, such rules should be written by teachers. A teacher in CA, represented by Gloria Allard, recently won a landmark $4 million award from a jury after this teacher sued the school district for maintaining a work environment of sexual harassment, as the school adminiistrators refused to suspend high school students (white and wealthy) who were cussing this teacher, and harassing this teacher in other ways.

The administrators ignored the teacher's complaints (administrators defense: "our hands are tied") because the parents of the students threatened to sue the school if their little darlings were suspended.

So, after two years of this abuse, the teacher sued these administrators -- the first lawsuit of its kind in the nation.

And, she won. $4 million.

I hope other teachers sue, if that's what it takes to get the message across to administrators who turn a deaf ear to what damage this causes to the work environment for a teacher.

BTW, notice the union did not lift a finger to help this teacher represented by Gloria Allard. Not a big surprise to me. The union never actually HELPS teachers.

[maxwell]

The other day some unsupervised kids were playing on a neighbor's porch and broke a planter and a stand with glass shelves, all over the neighbor's front porch... I heard her yelling at these kids to go home, get off her property or she was going to call the police.... some of the parents of these hooligans had the audacity to threaten the woman for yelling at their kids... in their view this woman was completely at fault for yelling at the children. One response: "If you don't like kids, you shouldn't have moved to a family neighborhood." (Followed by mutterings of profanity directed toward the woman.)

While we were fixing the windows, a young woman walked by with a pre-schooler. The kid picked up a rock and threw it at the Church. The foreman told her not to let her child do that, and she told him to mind his own business.

Excuse HER, that IS his business... I woulda told her just where to get off at that point...

Both these stories show parents trying to maintain that other folks should "mind their own business" in the matter of their kids... It becomes your and my business, however, when these kids cross boundaries, in this case, encroachment and destruction of private property. The parents ain't justified in thinking that anything that has to do with their kids is their territory alone. When the little wankers get out and start interacting with other folks unsupervised, somebody's got to take the hit. Looks like the parents were taking out their frustration at their apparent lack of control on the unwilling recipients of their progeny's misbehavior...

[maxwell]

Where is the equivalent group of the NAACP to help that kid, to perhaps sue the kid who punched him out and gave him five stitches???

THAT would be racist and insensitive, chick...

[Movemout]

I guess things must have changed since I was in school lo many years ago. We used to have an assembly at the beginning of the school year and the Principal would lay out the infractions that would earn you a suspension, or expulsion, and that was that. I understand your point about teachers not having the authority to suspend students but they can look the other way or not report the infraction at all. I suspect that this kid got more than one free pass from the teaching staff who didn't want to get involved. Cussing or being late may not be specifically referred in the administrivia governing when a suspension might be ordered but I bet there are references to persistent behavior problems.

Our government run schools are a disgrace to the Nation. It is time to fix the problems or privatize the whole system.

[summer]

Thanks for your post #14. I appreciate you taking the time to share that experience.

[summer]

Re your post #15 -- I'm white, and I lost count of how many times I was suspended in high school. I guess you [the black poster who never threw a punch] and I blow their hypothesis out of the water, huh?

LOL...thanks, Skooz.

[summer]

BTTT to your entire post #16. Thanks, shezza.

[summer]

Thanks for bumping this thread, Cacique.

[kstewskis]

Oh gag me. Lose the chip you little sh**. You'll fare a lot better in life if you do. And don't start what you can't finish.

[summer]

Re your post #18, quoting from my post #1:

(2) If a teacher was around, why didn't the teacher break up this fight, before the student had injuries so severe he had to get stitches?

And, your reply:

I have to take great exception to your question here. It seems obvious you've never seen a bare fist fight, nor been in one. A hard bare fist to the eyebrow area can, and usually will, cause a deep gash. This can take all of .7 seconds to occur. In other words, the teacher would have had no chance even if he/she was in the front of the same room.

I very much appreciate the point you make here, Redwing9. I actually wrote the question just to anticipate the question being asked by a poster.

And, actually, yes, I have seen that kind of fight -- in fact, as a teacher (a first year teacher, no less), and I made the mitake of stopping such a fight -- and, was disciplined by the school administrators for doing so.

The black kid who beat the cr*p out of another kid never was punished in any way whatsoever.

Oh, hbut mom did suddenly find time to come to the school and threaten repeatedly to sue me.

And, the teachers union yawned when I asked for help.

I tell you this not to demean your comment in any way, as you make a very valid point -- it all happens very quickly. But, I saw it happen when it did occur in my classroom.

According to the school, the correct repsonse on my part was not to "touch" the student's shoulder and pull him off of the student he was beating the cr*p out of, but, rather, to use the phone and call administration.

The facts I metioned -- that the school had no principal at that time, and the classroom had no phone, were facts that were deemed irrelevant.

Somehow, I was to wiggle my nose and a principal would magically appear. The teachers union agreed with the school administration -- and, with the black single mom who thought I had a million bucks because I was required to wear a dress and stockings everyday to this low income school, and, therefore, was worthy of a potential law$uit.

True story.

[summer]

I meant: Oh, but the black kid's mom,...

[summer]

metioned = mentioned

[JimRed]

You know, I'm black, and somehow I managed to go through thirteen years of schooling without a single suspension. This kid could have too if he stayed out of trouble and his parents woke up and dealt with their son's problems.

Sounds to me more like a "content of character" issue than a "color of skin" one. And your kids won't be a problem for the system, either. I pray that they are treated fairly.

The other kid was suspended for defending himself, it appears. But if you don't defend yourself you risk worse injury, not to mention becoming a target in the future.

[summer]

And, Redwing9, I am grateful for your post because it leads me to a bigger point beyond my own experiences that I meant to mention earlier: What is a teacher to do? Because:

(1) In some school districts, a teacher will be disciplined by a school district for NOT attempting to break up a fight;

(2) In other school districts, a teacher will be disciplined by a school district for ATTEMPTING to break up a fight because now the teacher has "touched" (as I touched a student's shoulder) a student;

(3) In ALL school districts, a teacher risks getting sued by the parent who is litigation-happy, and has time to sue, and can call the NAACP, but can't find five minutes to come to a school conference or talk to the teacher otherwise;

(4) In NO school district does the school administration actually defend the rights of teachers -- as the teacher in CA demonstrates. Whenever it's a parent who threatens to sue a school district verses a teacher, the administration backs: the parent.

Finally, why would anyone in their right mind who understands this siutation ever want to teach in a school again? This is where I often find myself. I'm past the bouts depression I went through for a long time, but, finally accepting the fact that I do NOT want to be in this kind of work environment -- even though I really did enjoy teaching. I am still a certified teacher, but, I think there may be other ways to teach. Thanks again for your post.
PS Now I realize why some experienced teachers subsequently gave me the following advice: Here's what you do when you see a fight at school -- pretend you didn't.

[Conservative til I die]

I guess it's out of the question that the disproportionate punishments meted out to blacks are due to the disproportionate misbehvaior by black students. Nah, couldn't be. Must be evil honkies keepin' da brutha' man down.

[mhking]

Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

[summer]

And, my above post #75 is in addition to the points you and I previously made:

Your very valid point, that fights happen quickly, as do the injuries. (So, are parents of the kid getting beat up supposed to be satisfied with a policy of whenever the principal shows up on the scene, the school acted quickly enough? Their kid may already need five stitches by then.)

And, my previous point, in my reply #1 - A teacher must also assess the potential risk and injury to the teacher, if the teacher wants to spare a kid getting beat up from getting five stitches.

In short, this article raises a lot of issues -- none of which are addressed by any of the parties mentioned in the article.

[summer]

Finially:

Roxbury teacher breaks up fight, gets indicted

(No, this article is not about me.)

[summer]

I meant: Finally...