"3,5,7,9 - There's No Such Thing As Palestine..."

Israeli Day Parade ^ | 5/5/02 | self

[rpage3]

"2,4,6,8 - Israel is the Jewish State..."

Waiting to cross 5th Avenue today, one could hear the bullhorn chants as the Israeli day parade marched up to 79 th street in Manhattan. Cute stuff to be sure, but what does it say about the "peace" these folks want? A quick check of the Bible indicates the existence of a Palestine (let's not get into a discussion about its borders), have the Israelis decided that the reference in the Bible doesn't exist, never did and never will?

[hellinahandcart]

Nice attempt to spin bullsh!t into gold (powder in an envelope proves you were right? HA! Give me a break already, the pipe bombs qualify as more of an "incident" than that). But Sharon arrived yesterday and you did not say to "stay away from big cities from Sunday until whatever day Sharon leaves", did you?

What exactly were you trying to stir up with that remark about staying away from cities today and tomorrow?

[mississippi red-neck]

All I know is someone asked was the word in the Bible. I've studied the Bible quite a bit through the years and still do, but I didn't think it was in there either, but I try to be very careful before I say what's in or not in the bible or what it means to me. So I did a word search in two different Bible programs for the word and there it was. I hope no one is upset with me, I didn't put it there.

As for what difference it makes. None. At least to the final outcome. I know who's land it is and who's going to end up with it. I read the Book. The final size is going to be a lot bigger than what they got now.

[a_Turk]

I hope no one is upset with me

I sure ain't! Why would I be upset with you? You, after all, made me an honorary red-neck a few months back, remember? :-)

What does the Bible say of Goliath's nationality? I always thought he was Filistine. Was I wrong?

[mississippi red-neck]

did you say that this is the original King James version? Rather odd mistranslation. Obviously this is a reference to the Phillistine cities in Gaza, which, like nearly all overseas Greek cities, were on the seacoast (the Greeks being a maritime people).

Yes it is in the King James, triple checked. The word Palestine can be cofusing to people when tey try to associate it with a place or certain land area or state. It is not a place but rather is more rightly used to describe certain traits,or habits or if you will lifestyles of a paticular race, or a group of different race or tribes with the same lifestyle. The word Palestine means.. rolling, to roam, migratory nomad. In this verse,[ Joel 3: 4 ] at the time of Tyre and Zidon, [sometimes Sidon ] it was describing the Phoenicians who inhabitied the coastlands between the two.They also where the first to settle the islands. The first big one was Cyprus.They where the first great seafarers.

They where nomads in that they made their living roaming the seas and trading. They where not tied to the land. The word palestine is used to describe the phoenicians as a migratory people. You are right that the prowess of the phoenicians as sailors was overshadowed by the Greeks who followed them. When the Romans destroyed the city of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. they wanted to destroy any future claims to the land , however slight the chance may be, that the Jews may have so they renamed area of Judea and around it Palestine.

They got the name from the fact that there where several nomadic tribes that moved in and out the area and somtimes camped their for some lenght of time trading with the Jews and Samaritans. Basicly they where saying the people there where just passing through. The palestinians they fought where also a group of several different tribes. I tried to be careful with this I hope it helps give a little clarity. If any body else has anything to add I'm listening, this has been a good learning thred for me. Sorry it took so long to reply.

[DentsRun]

There are plenty of Christian states, but only one Jewish state. You are being intolerant and down right racist if you think that everyone should have their country but Jews, or you are a one-worlder who has just shown his hatred of all actual peoples.

I don't know that I hate any "actual peoples". I sort of like the American system, where anyone is welcome as long as he assimilates. My own complaint is that some people don't want to assimilate and would rather remain loyal to their old country or own tribe. I don't care where such people go but I for one would be a lot happier if they didn't come here.

[Iwentsouth]

Here is link again to KJV Joel for those interested.

Joel 3:4

Joe 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and [for] my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Joe 3:3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.
Joe 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly [and] speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
Joe 3:5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:
Joe 3:6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.
Joe 3:7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:
Joe 3:8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken [it].
Joe 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
Joe 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I [am] strong.
Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness [is] great.
Joe 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision.
Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. Joe 3:16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD [will be] the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
Joe 3:17 So shall ye know that I [am] the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
Joe 3:18 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
Joe 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence [against] the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
Joe 3:20 But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
Joe 3:21 For I will cleanse their blood [that] I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

[BlackVeil]

Toolman comments on protesters "marching around burning flags and cutting their heads open." I know this isn't the main point of your post, but I wanted to comment on this, because I saw other pics on forums, showing the bloodied heads of Middle Eastern demonstrators. It looks shocking - and one might criticise this practice - but the slashing of the forehead is part of the "Ashura" day commemorations. It is very like Easter processions, a religious, not a political event, special to the Shias who are only a minority sect in Islam. The Sunnis are not in favor of the Ashura day parades. Many of the flag burners would look on that with as much distaste as you do. Many of the bleeding heads people might rush around yelling "death to America", but not at that time (Asurha), it is a day commemorating the death of Imam Hussein - the Lord of Martyrs. In recent years, the clergy have encouraged Shias to visit the blood bank on Ashura, rather than run around bleeding on the streets, but many mantain the old ways. The Ashura traditions also include carrying black flags, elaborate dances which reproduce the events where their hero died, and singing mournful chants.

[BlackVeil]

"name me a non-fascist country that has kept any territory taken in war.i await your responce" Well - China still has Tibet - they are holding it by very brutal methods, but not getting any publicity (unlike Israel). Your point is sound, the whole of the 20th century has shown the futility of conquest over an unwilling people. England in Ireland, France in Algeria, Russia in Poland - on and on. It is not just a colonialism thing - recently the Indonesians finally got kicked out of East Timor. The conquest model only works if the whole country is re-settled by a numerous and superior population who entirely replace the indigenous (like in America and Australia). And the Israelis have not managed that. I know that they dream of expelling the population of the West Bank - but they have no significant population of their own to put in its place. The whole land would be empty. Never, in the whole history of civilization, have we seen a people depart to make way for no one.

[phasma proeliator]

"I don't understand why is was necessary to remove my comment? There was no threat as you well know, it was simply a statement of the obvious. When Someone as Sharon visits the US, the government and the FBI is on high alert, and everyone should be aware.

For the record there was a small incident today."

your statement "Anyway, stay away from big cities on Monday and Tuesday" is not a threat?

what the hell is it?
That kind of a statement doesn't just "slip out"...you either intended that to be a threat or you are very ignorant of the world these days.

I applaud the mod for removing your post, but am disapointed that you are still a member of this forum. I have seen people banned for much less than a threat like this.

[mississippi red-neck]

Why would I be upset with you? You, after all, made me an honorary red-neck a few months back, remember? :-) What does the Bible say of Goliath's nationality? I always thought he was Filistine. Was I wrong?

You are right and you are still a member in good standing! This Goliath business can be a bit confusing. There's more than one refered to in the bible. The one in [ 1 Sam:17], slain by Daniel and the one in [ 2 Sam:21:19 ], slain by one of Daniel's mighty men, Elhanan. You see their where actually five of them. The one David killed had four sons who where giants also and sometimes refered to as Goliath, you know kinda like George Foreman and his boys.

By the way, David was aware of his sons and was ready to take all of them on. If you notice in 1 Sam:17 when he picked up the stones he picked up five. He was a member or champion of the phlistine army but was of a seperate race. He was from one of the what I call the "im" tribes ie: Anakim, Rephaim,etc. who where desendents of the nephilim a race of giants, brought about by the strange goings on in Gen:6 between the "sons of God and the daughters of men. Which in turn led to the Flood. Sorry it took so long to reply.

[a_Turk]

sons of God

That's another good one..

[mississippi red-neck]

sons of God.

Yep, it is.

[Lazamataz]

1,2,3,4, Palestine bombings will lead to war.

5,6,7,8, Islam is a faith of hate.

[BlackVeil]

I do not have my Bible with me, but haven't I seen translations where it was angels, come down from heaven, and they lusted after the daughters of men?

[a_Turk]

Simplified bibles will contain references to "Angels" substituting "Sons of God." This is a key to understanding the same reference made relative to Jesus.

Another culture where high priestesses bore children of God is the Sumerian culture, one where Judaism seems to have borrowed from substantially. Incidentally, the veil is a gift of the Sumerian culture as well..

Never read a simplified religious text as primary material. Allow no man to enter between you and God.

[rmlew]

The conquest model only works if the whole country is re-settled by a numerous and superior population who entirely replace the indigenous (like in America and Australia). And the Israelis have not managed that. I know that they dream of expelling the population of the West Bank - but they have no significant population of their own to put in its place. The whole land would be empty. Never, in the whole history of civilization, have we seen a people depart to make way for no one.

I know that you feel this to be the case. However, parties supporting a transfer of populations have never gotten more than 10% of the vote. Heck, Moledet has 2 seats out of 120. As many Jews vote for Hadash (the Arab-Jewish neo-communist party) as for Moledet. A majority of Israeli Jews oppose expelling the Palestinians.

There are almost 5 million Israeli Jews and about 9 million other Jews. The West Bank and/or Gaza could be repopulated with Jews.

[rmlew]

I wrote:

There are plenty of Christian states, but only one Jewish state. You are being intolerant and down right racist if you think that everyone should have their country but Jews, or you are a one-worlder who has just shown his hatred of all actual peoples.

DentsRun responded
I don't know that I hate any "actual peoples". I sort of like the American system, where anyone is welcome as long as he assimilates. My own complaint is that some people don't want to assimilate and would rather remain loyal to their old country or own tribe. I don't care where such people go but I for one would be a lot happier if they didn't come here.

1. But the Arabs don't want to assimilate. They want to destroy Israel, all of it.
2. America is a fairly unique contry. Most countries are based on nationality. You would erase this. That is not tolerance any more than forcing interracial marriges would be.

[rmlew]

let's limit it to the last century. name me a non-fascist country that has kept any territory taken in war.i await your responce.

I'll spot you communist countries as well and only look at non-totalitarian ones:
1. The US gained dozens of Pacific Islands in World War I and II. Most remain US Territories.
2. France recaptured Alsasce and Lorraine from Germany in World War 1.
3. Every country in the Middle east was created by war or artificial boundaries defined by war-ending treaties in the 20th century.
4. Territory has been exchanged through conflict many times in South America.
I could name dozens more examples.

[rmlew]

Joel 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head.

Don't sweat it. King James Version is a hoirrible translation. Look to direct Hebrew-English translations for the Old Testiment. The Vulgate and Latin Translations were both poorly done and injected politics as they were done in the shadow of the Judean revolts.

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

King James Version is a hoirrible translation.

As a translation, it appears to s--k! As a work of literature for itself, it is inspiring poetry!