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To: Elsie
1. There are a LOT of things that "GOD didn't tell us". 2. We mere mortals 'presume' about ALL kinds of things: the biggest being that the way WE think, as individuals, and then, as a group of similar thinking folks, that OUR veiwpoint is RIGHT.
Yes, we do presume about a lot. However, biblically speaking, where the text is silent we need not be adamant about our presumptions.

As for GOD not telling us, what about that 'sand on the shore thing'?
Genesis 22:17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.

How about 'Many are called but few are chosen'?

In both cases, CONTEXT. The first verse is God speaking of the descendants of Abraham. There are both physical and spiritual descendants. If this is spiritual descendants (which I think it ULTIMATELY is, though physical Israel was also blessed through Abraham), then this proves my point that the title of this thread is presumptious and not an accurate reflection of what Calvinists believe. Revelation talks about people from EVERY tribe and nation. God chose a whole bunch of folks, not a "select few."

The second one is at the tail end of two parables. The first one appears to speak of rewards for those who labor for God. The second one is a parable of Israel- those who were invited to the feast but would not come. So, the One who threw the feast went out and chose people for the feast. This verse may indicate that comparatively few are chosen in the scope of all who have the message before them. Note, these folks weren't begging to get into the feast. They were chosen. They wouldn't have come on their own. They were drawn to it.

And, 'Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.' (Matthew 7:13-14)
Good verse for depravity. The question is how do the few find it? Not because of anything with them, but they are drawn and led by God's Spirit.

My whole point is that the Bible does not say how many God chose. For all I know God could have chosen this entire generation and we are His vehicles to draw them in. Few Calvinists will say only a "select few" are chosen. We aren't to know the number; we are just to go out and indiscrimately share the gospel with everyone knowing that at least some will come.
32 posted on 05/26/2002 10:31:31 AM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2; CCWoody; Corin Stormhands
My whole point is that the Bible does not say how many God chose.

It is diversionary to say "perhaps everyone was chosen." If you believe everyone was chosen, then you would be a universalist and you would be forced to affirm that Jesus died for all. You are not a universalist....I'm fairly certain of that. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

Good verse for depravity. The question is how do the few find it? Not because of anything with them, but they are drawn and led by God's Spirit.

In this verse you affirm that few are chosen. So...which is it? Is it "everyone" or is it "few?"

The title of the article stands. Unlimited Atonement means that Jesus died for all. Limited Atonement, the belief of many (but not all, as attested by this article) calvinists, SAYS that only THE FEW were preselected.

36 posted on 05/26/2002 6:55:35 PM PDT by xzins
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