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Eschatology and the Power of Myth
The Chalcedon Foundation ^ | 10/16/02 | Greg Uttinger

Posted on 10/16/2002 2:11:40 PM PDT by RnMomof7

Eschatology and the Power of Myth

Greg Uttinger October 2002

C. S. Lewis argued that certain stories have the power to captivate the imagination and move the human soul in ways that the words themselves cannot account for.1 These stories he called "myths." Their power is not, strictly speaking, literary in nature. That is, a myth can work its magic even when it is told in summary or told badly. For example, the average American has not read the Arthurian myth in any of its classic forms. He has not read Mallory, let alone Chrétien de Troyes or Geoffrey of Monmouth. At best, he may have seen Disney's Sword in the Stone or a Hollywood distortion of the legend, like Knight's Tale. In spite of this, the names Arthur, Merlin, and Camelot still have meaning for him. He finds the words "Round Table" and "Holy Grail" charged with significance. Lewis was unwilling to speculate on the source of the power that myths exercise.2 Jung, referring to myths in the broader sense, ventured to speak of archetypes that lie buried in the collective unconscious. Joseph Campbell had similar ideas. As Christians, we must look elsewhere.

Creaturehood and Myth God is the Creator of heaven and earth, and therefore the universe in all its parts bears His imprint. "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" (Ps. 19:1). Man, however, is the very image of God (Gen. 1:27). So when we look at the things that God has made, especially when God has named them for us or used them in a particularly grand manner, we see reflections of our Maker and also reflections of ourselves. When we use these things in poetry or in story, the effect can be quite powerful.

Think of the words mountain, water, bride, and blood. Contrast them with the words skyscraper, soda, significant other, and plasma. "Sword of the Spirit" carries a power that "machine gun of the Spirit" clearly lacks. And "great red dragon" is worlds away from "friendly purple dinosaur." Furthermore, even though we are fallen, our imaginations still resonate to the whole Biblical story of creation, fall, and redemption. We cannot escape our creaturehood. And herein, at least in part, lies the power of myth.

In myths we regularly have a number of Biblical images or story elements arranged in a pattern that echoes the Biblical story. Sometimes the echo is clear: the prince in disguise, the dragon-slaying knight, the sleeping beauty, the returning king, the thousand-year kingdom. Sometimes the echo is subtler. For example, "the blade that was broken" — either Aragorn's or Sigurd's before him — reflects the sword-image that began at Eden's gate and continues to the two-edged sword in Christ's mouth. Because none of the Biblical blades were broken, we must make further connections. The king's sword is his office and his right to rule: for example, when Arthur broke the sword from the stone, he jeopardized his right to rule; thus, Merlin moved quickly to secure for him Excalibur. Now in redemptive history, the Davidic kingship was broken; the messianic dynasty was seemingly cut off. But with the coming of Christ, the dynasty and kingship were suddenly reforged.

Now, all myths are fiction,3 and some were never meant to be taken as anything else. No one gives primary belief to Middle-Earth or to the mythic elements in the Star Wars saga.4 On the other hand, the Aryan Atlantis, the Master Race, and the Thousand-Year Reich were another matter. There were people who took this mythology very seriously, and millions died as a result. Myths can be very dangerous.

The Dispensationalist Myth Dispensationalism has given us a very powerful myth. The Rapture, the Anti-Christ, the rebuilt Temple, the Great Tribulation — these images, sequenced together and interpreted as they have been for two hundred years in American churches, have stamped a deep impression on the hopes and fears of the average American Christian. Christians who have never read Ezekiel or Zechariah nevertheless assume that a new Temple will stand on Mount Moriah some day soon. Christians who have never studied Revelation 13 are nonetheless afraid of bar coding, government identification numbers, and computer systems that make use of the digits 666. And many, many Christians have found themselves in a deserted classroom or office building and wondered, if only for a moment, "Have I been 'left behind'?"

Now the point is this: dispensationalism no longer survives as a carefully worked out and Biblically defended theological system. It survives primarily as myth. Its mythic quality sustains it, maintains its momentum, and makes it unlikely that we will hear the end of it anytime soon.

On the other hand, traditional dispensationalism of the Darby-Scofield type is dying out. Its multiple gospels and its relegation of Jesus' own sermons to the prior dispensation of Law5 were features so clearly at odds with faith in Christ that younger pastors and teachers simply steered clear of them, though without consciously breaking with the system. This is on the one hand. On the other, popularizers of the movement could never resist the sensationalism of signs and portents. The World Wars, the rise of Bolshevik Russia, and above all the creation of Israel in 1948 were heralded as sure signs that the rapture of the church was at hand. The problem is that traditional dispensationalism taught an imminent, any-moment, signless rapture.

According to the founding fathers of dispensationalism, the prophetic clock stopped ticking at Calvary.6 The Church Age was an unforeseen parenthesis in God's dealings with Israel. Nothing in the Church Age was prophesied in the Old Testament. Therefore, there could be no prophesied signs of its end. Only with the Rapture would the prophetic clock start afresh. But the man in the pew never really got this, and those hawking sensationalism simply ignored it. Sensationalism built the dispensational myth, but without any regard to the finer points of the system itself.

As a result, the Great Tribulation and Rapture are still fixtures in the evangelical mindset, but evangelical theologians are no longer quite sure about the nature of the dispensational system itself. At least no one is writing detailed dissertations on God's two eternally distinct peoples, Israel and the church. No one is arguing for a signless rapture and a frozen prophetic clock. Grace and Talbot Seminaries have quietly moved away from their strict dispensational legacies, and Dallas is still working on the details of its new and improved brand of dispensationalism.7

But the dispensational myth continues. And it is a myth; that is, it is fictional creation that contains a powerful use of Biblical images and a powerful echo of the Biblical story. The Rapture has Biblical precedent in Noah's embarking seven days before the rains began, in Lot's escape from Sodom hours before the fires fell, and in the flight of Christians from Jerusalem in AD 70 just before the siege began. The mythic Anti-Christ echoes Nimrod, Antiochus Epiphanes, Herod the Great, and Nero. The Great Tribulation bears some resemblance to the plagues on Egypt and the real Great Tribulation in AD 70. Oddly, the Biblical echo here is fainter. The Great Tribulation of pop dispensationalism, unlike that described by our Lord in the Olivet Discourse (Mt. 24; Mk. 13; Lk. 21), is mostly the reign of hell on earth and has little to do with the active judgment of God. With the church and the Spirit withdrawn at the Rapture, Satan gets to have his fling on earth, and he seems to have a penchant for nuclear and biological warfare.8

Of course, these echoes are only echoes, not accurate interpretations of Scripture. Certainly, the Bible speaks of a rapture, but dispensational writers somehow overlook the fact that it will be neither silent nor secretive (1 Thes. 4:15-5:4). It will accompany the Resurrection, which will swallow up Death, the final enemy (cf. 1 Cor. 15:51-55; Rev. 20:11-14). Dispensational writers never seem to notice that the word "antichrist" only appears in 1 and 2 John and is associated there with false teachers who deny the Incarnation.9 And no dispensational writer accepts as literal truth our Lord's clear time frame for the Great Tribulation: "this generation" that is, His own (Mt. 24:34; Mk. 13:30; Lk. 21:31-32; cf. Mt. 23:29-36).

At present, the dispensational myth is being fueled by Tim LaHaye's best selling Left Behind series. The strategy behind the series is sound: fuel a deeply held myth with fast-paced fiction about likable characters who are never far from occult forces and human violence — then turn it into a film.10 The books sell, the myth becomes more deeply engrained, and nobody has to debate theology or answer embarrassing exegetical questions.

Diffusing a Myth So, how do you diffuse a myth?

A counter-myth might have some success. And we may hope that the current run of Lord of the Rings will exercise a greater sway over the hearts and minds of the young than the Left Behind books and films. Better a generation of Rangers and hobbits who are willing to fight for Middle-Earth than one of cultural retreatists who don't plan on being around much longer.

But ultimately, myths must be overturned by the clear and repetitive proclamation of truth. The preaching of Christ crucified overturned the oracles, the mysteries, and the magic of the pagan world.11 It eclipsed Gaea, buried Osiris, and banished Balder. It can overturn the Tribulation myth as well. But we must tell the whole truth, the whole gospel: the Sovereign Creator; man's transgression of His law; man's true moral guilt; the wrath of an offended God; the true Incarnation of the Word; the blood atonement; the Resurrection and Ascension; the defeat of Satan; the end of Jewish ceremonies; the coming of the Kingdom; justification by faith; the power of the Spirit; the victory of the gospel; the final Judgment; and our own Resurrection. Truncated gospels and isolated snippets of theology, however orthodox, will not answer a cultural myth. We must answer a system with a system and a story with the Story.

When a thousand years from now historians evaluate our age, they will probably reckon it as one of the most superstitious in the history of the world. Cosmic and biological evolution will, of course, be counted as the chief and most permeating superstitions. The whole Nazi mythology may be next, followed by some Marxist and Keynesian ideas about economic history and the nature of the economy. UFOs, white racism, reincarnation, and the goddess reborn will all receive some sort of footnote. But for the superstition that held the greatest sway among professing Christians, the Tribulation myth will be the clear winner. Future scholars will wonder that self-professed Christians ever believed such a thing; but perhaps they will take into account the folly of our age and the power of myth.

Notes

1. C. S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1961), 41. 2. Ibid., 44ff. 3. Yes, C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien both spoke of Christianity as a "true myth." But they knew they were dealing in paradox. 4. I have been told that in a recent survey in Great Britain a large number of people listed their religion as "Jedi Knight." We will hope they were joking. 5. See Philip Mauro, The Gospel of the Kingdom (Swengel, PA: Bible Truth Depot, n.d.), ch. VI and XI, for the relevant citations from C. I. Scofield and a response to them. 6. For a number of relevant quotes, see Loraine Boettner, The Millennium (Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company, 1957), 219ff. 7. See Gary North, Rapture Fever, Why Dispensationalism Is Paralyzed (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1993), 195ff. 8. The dispensational Great Tribulation has become the evangelical substitute for the doctrine of hell. The Great Tribulation, as bad as it is, is kinder and gentler. Some survive it, some come to Christ in the midst of it, it only lasts seven years, and it is mostly the work of Satan and the Anti-Christ: evangelicals still can frighten people towards Christ without suggesting that a loving God would ever pour out His wrath on sinners. 9. They could dump the word "antichrist" and talk only about the Beast, but "Anti-Christ" is a more powerful word. 10. This might sound an awful lot like the Harry Potter franchise, but Potter works more from folk superstition than from true myth, at least so far. 11. See Athanasius, On the Incarnation of the Divine Wor.

Greg Uttinger teaches theology, history, and literature at Cornerstone Christian School in Roseville, California. He lives nearby in Sacramento County with his wife, Kate, and their three children. He may be contacted at paul_ryland@hotmail.com.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: endtimes; eschatology
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To: xzins
It can't be, we all know (from the RC's) that "the Rock" is Peter. :-)
21 posted on 10/16/2002 6:46:14 PM PDT by Iowegian
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To: xzins; RnMomof7
Those blessings are not referring to the 'church', they are referring to the gentiles.

The Church is the body of Christ, which is neither Jew nor Gentile (Gal.3:28)

This was a mystery not revealed in the Old Testament and not revealed until it was revealed to Paul (Eph.3:5-6)

That Christ would be a blessing to the Gentiles was revealed in Isa.49:6.

22 posted on 10/16/2002 7:01:15 PM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: RnMomof7
Those who fear fulfillment of prophecy call dispensationalism 'myth' but to make it a myth would require removing the epistles to the Thessalonians from the word.

Paul did indeed call the church a mystery, but the inclusion of the gentile world in the 'seed of Abraham' was still set out in O.T. prophecy, but Israel never did accept any prophecy; a stiff-necked people they were called.

23 posted on 10/16/2002 7:22:34 PM PDT by editor-surveyor
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To: Iowegian
*grin*
24 posted on 10/16/2002 7:25:39 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
If there were no substance to Scriptural Prophecy, then why do so many who oppose Scripture dedicate so much labor to setting up false explanations for possible future events such as,...meteor impacts, fallen angel/(New Age alien/angel) return to earth, tidal waves, Return of 'Babylon', nuclear holocaust, biological plagues, cloning, Counterfeiting of Divine Institutions such as Marriage, Nationality, and Property Rights?

And most importantly, if those who oppose Christianity have so much unbiased wherewithal, then what difference does it make if they accept God's system for having a relationship with Him over any other?

As for the Tribulation, I still haven't witnessed a third of the grasses being burnt, a third of the ships being destroyed, a third of the waters turned bitter, earthquakes where every mountain and island is dislodged. I'd say there's fairly good grounds for some rather strict literal interpretation of the Great Tribulation. I am probably not as strong as many saints with respect to faith, but the the pedantic isn't always symbolic or allegorical. Plenty of occasions in history past where God simply kicks ass,...and not in just some allegorical sense.

25 posted on 10/16/2002 8:20:50 PM PDT by Cvengr
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To: RnMomof7; xzins; fortheDeclaration
This entire article seems to represent an extreme view of Dispensationalism. I would like to offer these comments from William MacDonald (Here's the Difference, Gospel Folio Press, 1999) as a modern view of Dispensationalism that I believe faithfully summarizes the Scriptures.
Differing Ages

Augustine once said, "Distinguish the ages and the Scriptures harmonize." God has divided all human history into ages: "...by whom also He made the ages" (Heb. 1:2, ASV margin). These ages may be long or short. What distinguishes them is not their length but the way in which God deals with humanity.

Dispensations Defined

While God Himself never changes, His methods do. He works in different ways at different times- We sometimes speak of the way God administers His affairs with man during a particular era as a dispensation. Technically, a dispensation does not mean an age but rather an administration, a stewardship, an order, or an economy. But it is difficult for us to think of a dispensation without thinking of time. For example, the history of the United States government has been divided into various administrations. We speak of the Roosevelt administration, the Eisenhower administration, or the Reagan administration. We mean, of course, the manner in which the government was operated while those presidents were in office. The important point is the policies that were followed, but we necessarily link those policies with the particular period of time during which they served.

Dispensations Illustrated

Therefore, in this chapter we will think of a dispensation as the way in which God deals with people during any particular period of history. God's dispensational dealings may be compared to the way in which a home is run. When there are only a husband and wife in the home, a certain program is followed. But when there are several young children, an entirely new set of policies is introduced. As the children mature, the affairs of the home arc handled differently again. We sec this same pattern in God's dealings with the human race (Gal. 4:1-5).

For example, when Cain killed his brother Abel, God set a mark on him, so that anyone finding him would not put him to death (Gen. 4:15). Yet after the Flood God instituted capital punishment, decreeing that "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed" (Gen- 9:6a). Why the difference? Because there had been a change in dispensations. Another example. In Psalm 137:8-9 the writer calls down severe judgment on Babylon:

8 0 daughter of Babylon, who are to be destroyed, happy the one who repays you as you have served us!
9 Happy she one who takes and dashes your little ones against the rock!

Yet later our Lord taught His people:

...love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you (Mt. 5:44).

It seems obvious that language suitable for the psalmist living under law would no longer be suitable for a Christian living under grace. Under law, the men of Israel were commanded to put away their heathen wives and children (Ezra 10:3). Under grace, believers should not put away unbelieving mates or children (1 Cor. 7:12-16).

Dispensations Demonstrated

Not all Christians are agreed on the number of dispensations or the names that should be given to them. In fact, some Christians do not accept dispensations at all.

But we may demonstrate the existence of dispensations as follows. First of all, there are at least two dispensations—law and grace: "For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ" (John. 1:17). The fact that our Bibles are divided into Old and New Testaments indicates that a change of administration occurred. Further proof is given by the fact that believers in this age are not required to offer animal sacrifices; this too shows that God has introduced a new order.

But if we agree that there are two dispensations, we are forced to believe that there are three, because the Dispensation of Law was not introduced until Exodus 19, hundreds of years after Creation. So there must have been at least one dispensation before the Law (see Rom. 5:14). That makes three. And then we should be able to agree on a fourth dispensation, because the Scriptures speak of "the age to come" (Heb. 6:5). This is the time when the Lord Jesus Christ will return to reign over the earth, otherwise known as the Millennium. (Millennium is Latin for one thousand years.)

The apostle Paul also distinguishes between the present age and an age to come. First he speaks of a dispensation that was committed to him in connection with the truth of the gospel and the Church (1 Cor. 9:17; Eph. 3:2; Col. 1:25). That is the present age. But then he also points forward to a future age when, in Ephesians 1:10, he refers to "the dispensation of the fullness of the times." It is apparent from his description of it that it has not yet arrived.

So we know that we are not living in the final age of the world's history.

Dispensations Specified

Dr. C. I. Scofield, editor of the Scofield Reference Bible lists seven dispensations, as follows:

  1. Innocence (Gen. 1:28). From Adam's creation to his fall.
  2. Conscience or Moral Responsibility (Gen. 3:7, 22). From the fall to the end of the Flood.
  3. Human Government (Gen. 9:5-6). From the end of the Flood to the call of Abraham.
  4. Promise (Gen. 12:1-3). From the call of Abraham to the giving of the Law.
  5. Law (Ex. 19-20). From the giving of the Law to the Day of Pentecost.
  6. Church (Acts 2). From the Day of Pentecost to the Rapture.
  7. Kingdom (Rev. 20:4). The thousand-year reign of Christ,

In his chart, "The Course of Time from Eternity to Eternity" A. E. Booth sees seven dispensations of human history foreshadowed in the seven days of Genesis:

  1. First day—Man tested with the light of creation light and promise.
  2. Second day—Government (from the Flood to the dividing of the nations),
  3. Third day—Israel (from Abraham to the end of the Gospels).
  4. Fourth day—Grace (a parenthetic period).
  5. Fifth day—The Tribulation.
  6. Sixth day—The Millennium.
  7. Seventh day—Eternity.

Importance of Dispensations

While it's not important to agree on the exact details, it is quite important to see that different dispensations do exist. (The distinction between law and grace is especially important.) Otherwise we will take portions of Scripture that apply to other ages and refer them to ourselves. While all Scriptures are profitable for us (2 Tim. 3:16), not all were written directly to us. Passages dealing with other ages have applications for us, but their primary interpretation is for the age for which they were written. For example, Jews living under the Law were forbidden to eat the meat of any unclean animal, that is, one that did not have a cloven hoof and did not chew the cud (Lev. 11:3). This prohibition is not binding on Christians today (Mk. 7:18-19), but the underlying principle remains that we should avoid moral and spiritual uncleanness.

God promised the people of Israel that if they obeyed Him, He would make them materially prosperous (Deut, 28:1-6). The emphasis then was on material blessings in earthly places. But this is not true today. God does not promise that He will reward our obedience with financial prosperity. Instead, the blessings of this dispensation are spiritual blessings in the heavenly places (Eph. 1:3).

One Gospel for All Dispensations

While there are differences among the various ages, there is one thing that never changes, and that is the gospel. Salvation always has been, is now, and always will be by faith in the Lord. And the basis of salvation for every age is the finished work of Christ on Calvary's Cross. People in the OldTestament were saved by believing whatever revelation the Lord gave them. Abraham, for example, was saved by believing God when He said that the patriarch's seed would be as numerous as the stars (Gen. 15:5-6). So far as we can determine, Abraham did not know much, if anything, about what would take place at Calvary centuries later. But God knew. And when Abraham believed the Lord, He put to Abraham's account all the value of the future work of Christ at Calvary.

Someone has said that the Old Testament saints were saved "on credit." That is to say, they were saved on the basis of the price that the Lord Jesus would pay many years later (that is the meaning of Rom. 3:25). We are saved on the basis of the work which Christ accomplished over 1900 years ago. But in both cases salvation is by faith in the Lord.

We must guard against any idea that people in the Dispensation of Law were saved by keeping the Law or even by offering animal sacrifices. The Law can only condemn; it cannot save (Rom. 3:20). And the blood of bulls and goats cannot put away a single sin (Heb. 10:4). No! God's way of salvation is by faith and faith alone' (See Rom. 5:1.)

Another good point to remember is this: when we speak of the present age as being the Age of Grace, we do not imply that God was not gracious in past dispensations. We simply mean that God is now testing man under grace rather than under law. This distinction will be explained more fully in a future chapter.

It is also important to realize that the ages do not close with split-second precision. Often there is an overlapping or transition period. We see this in the Book of Acts, for instance; it took some time for the new Church to throw off some of the trappings of the previous dispensation. And it's possible that there will be a period of time between the Rapture and the Tribulation during which the Man of Sin will be manifested and the Temple will be erected in Jerusalem.

Abuse of Dispensations

One final word. Like all good things, the study of dispensations can be abused. There are some Christians who carry Dispensationalism to such an extreme that they accept only Paul's Prison Epistles as applicable for the Church today! As a result they do not accept baptism or the Lord's Supper, since these are not found in the Prison Epistles. They also teach that Peter's gospel message was not the same as Paul's. (See Gal. 1:8-9 for a refutation of this.) These people are sometimes called ultra-dispensationalists or Bullingerites (after a teacher named E. W. Bullinger). Their extreme view of dispensations should be rejected.


26 posted on 10/16/2002 8:37:23 PM PDT by RochesterFan
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To: RochesterFan
I will read the entire thing tomorrow..but I cut my teeth on Scofield..I know his work well...I am just not a dispensationalist. Thanks for the material..will read in am
27 posted on 10/16/2002 8:46:10 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Cvengr
I am not sure I am just starting to look into this ..but I THINK some amils do believe in a tribulation...BOY am I glad I am not in charge:>)
28 posted on 10/16/2002 8:52:32 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: irishtenor
What if Amillennialism is a myth?
29 posted on 10/17/2002 2:14:39 AM PDT by marbren
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To: marbren
I find people who are amillennial do not expect Jesus to return soon. Also, serious Bible study seem to be a mystery to them. Case in point, My Amill pastor's wife said the other day, "Jesus might not return for another 2 billion years?!?"
30 posted on 10/17/2002 2:28:24 AM PDT by marbren
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To: RochesterFan
Excellent post on dispensations!
31 posted on 10/17/2002 5:32:00 AM PDT by fortheDeclaration
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To: marbren; irishtenor; RochesterFan
What if Amillennialism is a myth?

How do you explain these simple gospel passages:
32 posted on 10/17/2002 6:14:19 AM PDT by CCWoody
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To: Cvengr; editor-surveyor
Bump to my last post!
33 posted on 10/17/2002 6:24:35 AM PDT by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
Actually I have moved more in the direction of the amil position...some of the scriptures you have cited are part of that ...but there is still other scripture that indicates a earthly kingdom
34 posted on 10/17/2002 7:46:26 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
What scriptures indicate an earthly kingdom?
35 posted on 10/17/2002 7:51:11 AM PDT by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody; RnMomof7
Woody, you are ignoring what you know about how prophecy timelines work. - assuming complete continuity in those passages where it is convenient for your chosen position, but ignoring the fact that no prophecy has such unbroken timelines.

You also don't undestand the parable of the virgins. - The A-Mils, pretorists and such are the 'other virgins' who are not prepared, and will be required to be purified in the tribulation. - You will note that only the Philadelphian church was given the promise that they would not have to go through "the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the Earth." The other churches were not given that promise!

Mom,
"Actually I have moved more in the direction of the amil position..."

Don't become a weather vane! - Don't let these a-mil 'other virgins' erode your foundation. - Be prepared for his coming, be one of the 'wise virgins' and understand that the tribulation is coming.

36 posted on 10/17/2002 8:27:11 AM PDT by editor-surveyor
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To: editor-surveyor
Let us just take this one (I'll ignore your huge mistake with the parable of the virgins for the moment): This passage says that at the end of this age, all things offensive will be cast into the furnace of fire. This cannot be squared with any type of PreMillennialism.
37 posted on 10/17/2002 9:10:25 AM PDT by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody
Thanks for those excellent and staightforward scripture selections supporting the the Church's historic understanding re Christ's one time/final judgement for all/no reign from the mideast/no rapture return.

All so called amills I've encountered expect a tribulation but we'll endure it and Christians will encounter great persecution.No one gets whisked away avoiding physical death and tough times when many new martyrs will suffer and die for God the Son.

38 posted on 10/17/2002 9:36:51 AM PDT by IGNATIUS
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To: marbren
As an amill myself, I don't expect it in the sense that I'm not watching the news with baited breath waiting for a new cornerstone to be laid on the Temple Mount or something like that. I personally am comfortable with not knowing when He will return, only that it will be at a time known only to the Father. Having originally been a pre-trib rapture pre-mill, I can honestly say that I feel every bit as compelled to live according to Jesus' commandments now as I did then. The imminence has by no means left.

I am personally still in the stages of evaluating fully the amillennial position. Obviously, what I found initially was enough to make me change my eschatological view. My understanding so far is that there will indeed be tribulation for believing Christians on this Earth. I believe that the rapture happens at the second advent, not seven years before. My understanding of the binding of Satan eliminates the necessity or implication of an earthly physical kingdom. As I said, I'm still evaluating and studying all of this and imagine it will be quite some time before it all comes together because there are other things of more importance in my walk than studying end times events. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to pre-trib pre-mill dispensationalism we're not raptured based on our belief in the timing of the rapture...we're raptured based on our standing in Christ, and as such I know that regardless of when the rapture is, I'll meet the Lord in the air:)

As I said to xzins once, one day we'll be standing together in the New Jerusalem and laughing about how simple it all seems from the other side.

39 posted on 10/17/2002 9:52:10 AM PDT by Frumanchu
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To: IGNATIUS
All so called amills I've encountered expect a tribulation but we'll endure it and Christians will encounter great persecution.No one gets whisked away avoiding physical death and tough times when many new martyrs will suffer and die for God the Son.

Amen. Ask Stephen or Justin or any other early church figures if they felt gipped because they were martyrs or wronged by God because they were persecuted.

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him... -Job 13:15a

40 posted on 10/17/2002 10:00:52 AM PDT by Frumanchu
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