Bush Arrives in Vietnam

[Lunatic Fringe]

HANOI, Vietnam (AP) President Bush has arrived in Vietnam.

[killjoy]

BRING THEM HOME

Ummm.... who?

[MaineVoter2002]

From an excerpt of an email I received recently:

I'm very proud about my nation. That is Vietnam is set to become the WTO's 150th member following a desicion by the General Council on 7 November 2006, and now at Hanoi capital, from 12th to 19th Nov, hosts the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Leaders’ Meeting Week and the visiting of President W.Bush to Vietnam. Vietnam will improve in future."

I say good for the Vietnamese people! If they think the future will be brighter, good for them! What a shame that nations like Cuba and North Korea are not moving in this direction. What a shame that no matter how hard you try you will never find a Cuban or a North Korean online. They are kept in the dark...decades behind the rest of the world. And how nice to have a foreignor refer to our leader with the respect of calling him President and not "Mr." or worse like you hear coming from Canada and Europe these days.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

.


November 16, 2006 =

President BUSH lands in Communist Vietnam



November 16, 1965 =

Our U.S. 7th Cavalry's Day of Victory in the Valley of Death known as the IA DRANG Valley of a then Free South Vietnam.

http://www.lzxray.com

http://www.RickRescorla.com


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[Kozak]

From a metaphorical point of view we all arrived in Vietnam last Tuesday....

[SoldierDad]

GWB in Vietnam? What, he couldn't enlist in the Alabama National Guard and avoid being sent there? /sarc (figured I'd say it before someone else). You know the LSM would.

[MaineVoter2002]

Begging the question:

Could this moment had been achieved without the destruction and death of the Vietnam war?

That's a good question. Something tells me... maybe not. I mean, if we did not go there, how many other countries may have fallen to communism in the region? Or even in our own region

I have been told by some who live there (under 30 years old) that if the US did not leave when it did, Saigon would have been more advanced than Hong Kong today.

[My2Cents]

Bush plans to enlist in the Mexican Air Force.

That makes sense. They're probably still flying F-102s.

[diesel00]

I have friends there and they tell me what they can and cannot do, what they like and do not like. I use them and my own experience there to judge the openess of Vietnam.

See, that's the problem with anecdotal stories, I have friends in China and Vietnam too, in addition to abundant personal experiences. I believe Vietnam today is merely in a stage similar to mid-1990s China, when pretty much everything was tolerated in the capitalist euphoria unless you were particularly blatant. China is a bigger country than Vietnam (sorry for stating the obvious), and anecdotal stories on China will likely differ a lot more. I have been to Hanoi and Shanghai as recently as 2004, and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Shanghai was a more open and vibrant society than Hanoi. You can of course argue that Shanghai isn't the real China, but one can also say neither does Hanoi and Saigon represent the real Vietnam. In any case, when we both resort to contradicting anecdotal stories, the discussion really isn't going anywhere, and so I will butt out from here. Good talk though.

[easternsky]

Went to sights. Thank you for your service and all your posts . Your almost as good as TONKIN. (smile)

[diesel00]

Exactly. I'm tired of the double-standard revisionists here.

[MaineVoter2002]

I have been to Hanoi and Shanghai as recently as 2004

I refuse to go to Hanoi and anywhere in China.

Though I do believe they are "communist in name only" as another poster mentioned and though it's mostly symbolic since it's now all one nation, I would never go to Hanoi or any part of the fomer North. That's where I drew the line. The Vietnamese government would have to publically denounce their communist system and adopt a totally free democratic system before I would ever go there.

Even while in Saigon I made it a point never to buy souvenirs from places I suspected were government run shops like the ones you would find in tourist attractions or the post office. I always made a point of buying them from the people selling them in the streets.

I would never go to China for the same reason I will not go to Venezuela and the same reason I dont think Americans should go to Cuba. I dont want my money going to supporting such a regime. I only wished we could avoid the chinese imports...but that's another issue.

Yes, it was a good talk

[do the dhue]

I understand, but from reading some of the propaganda Ming wrote, it does not surprise me to see Vietnam move towards Capitalism.

But again, you have to be careful reading what he wrote because he used propaganda well.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

The old formula at work.

[UWhusky]

MaineVoter2002 said: The Vietnamese government would have to publically denounce their communist system and adopt a totally free democratic system before I would ever go there. (ok, I can't figure out how to put this in italics).

Be patient. I give it 20 years max before Vietnam will be a democracy. But the public denouncement of communism will never happen. They will at some point within the next 20 years "honor the communist contribution" to Vietnam and send communism off to a peaceful retirement.

Just my prediction, based on my own experiences in Vietnam (yes, more anecdotes)

[Merta]

If I recall, while reading my history textbook in the 10th grade, I don't know if it is instantly verifiable or not but after WWI, there was a guy who complained in front of Woodrow Wilson, Lloyd George and others about his nation, Vietnam, being a colony and not independent or something in that regard. That man's name was Ho Chi Minh.

I only recited a good amount from memory, I can't remember the exact story, but whether it be true or not it was in my textbook and so it would be interesting to hear your response on that.

[Redcloak]

Karl Rove stuned your beeber.

[Tulsa Ramjet]

"Kerry was in Vietnam? What side was he on?"

The "back" side, when he shot and killed that boy and got a medal.

[rintense]

Kerry served in Vietnam??? I did not know that!

[angkor]

"Ho Chi Minh"

There are some compelling stories about Bac Ho (e.g., his references to the US Constitution and to Abraham Lincoln), but here's the one that is most important, IMO:

Ho Chi Minh was *co-founder* in the 1920's of the **French** (yes, French) Communist Party and later, founder of the Communist Party Of Indochina.

His ideology was a bit more than simple Vietnamese nationalism.

[pleikumud]

You're right, the United States didn't lose in Vietnam; it abandoned the South Vietnamese. Kissinger negotiated a cease fire, then instead of supporting a free South, Congress cut funding. Sure enough, the Communists took over and commited mass murder. Saigon became Ho Chi Minh City. The Democrats and other liberal luntics want to repeat this crime in Iraq, thereby wasting the lives and limbs of our soldiers who have sacrificed. Someday the politicians will call on Americans to fight for freedom, and nobody will bother to show up.