On Joe Galloway

Michael Yon Online ^ | 6/26/08 | Michael Yon

[Dawnsblood]

I read Joe Galloway’s columns and often disagree with him. But Joe usually makes points that deserve consideration. Joe is not weak or weak-minded; I’ve told him to his face that he’s a mean old man. But I respect Joe. He has fought in pitched combat side-by-side with our troops. Joe thinks we’re losing the Iraq War and I believe we’re winning. Even though we disagree about Iraq, Joe and I both believe that torture is wrong.

Last week, I was invited by Dr. Rohan Gunaratna, one of the world’s leading experts on al Qaeda, to speak to a group of about two dozen experts and graduate students at the International Centre for Political Violence and Terrorism Research in Singapore. This was a closed-door talk, and I was speaking alongside a close friend of mine who is an expert on Afghanistan. The room was filled with people from countries like India, Singapore, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and Pakistan. None of these countries enjoy the freedom of speech that we have in America. No writer from any of these countries could dare publish the things that I can freely publish, or that readers can freely publish as comments. Singapore is a great ally of the United States and one of my favorite destinations. The people are well educated, peaceful and diverse. Still, our friends in Singapore do not have freedom of speech. Despite the limits of expression that they live under, this group of experts and graduate students in Singapore asked some of the most well-informed questions I have heard about the war in Iraq. No doubt, there were some who disapproved of America’s involvement in Iraq, but how can we challenge our own views if we do not listen to others who disagree with us?

[Dawnsblood]

Are we guilty of torture? Michael seems to think so. I personally think that is our guys and gal deal with it at SERE school it is not torture. After all we wouldn't torture our on people? Anyway this is Michael's take. Lots of debate in his comment section.

[Dawnsblood]

The column Michael is refering to is here.

[Racehorse]

. . . how can we challenge our own views if we do not listen to others who disagree with us? . . .

We don't have a problem challenging our own views. We have a problem reconciling our differences under a unified banner.

[Travis McGee]

I've attended SERE school and was also shown a waterboarding demo on a volunteer. At SERE school the primary “interrogation technique” used was smoke smothering your face while you were immobilized. The difference is at SERE school, you know the instructors are Americans who are giving you a taste of it, so you know what you might encounter and be more ready for it. SERE school also weeds out the really weak who will fold up easily. It's different if you are going to waterboard somebody for real, until you “get results.”

All that said, I still support waterboarding terrorists who are believed to have actionable intelligence.

[Slump Tester]

Torture? If it saves even one American life, I don't care if we cut their nuts off with a rusty hacksaw.

These folks who are so worried about torture would change their tune PDQ if it was THEIR a$$ that was being saved by the info extracted.

[DB]

First, I don't consider water boarding torture.

Second, you say it is immoral, well what's the morality of knowing an individual in your custody has information about a WMD that will kill thousands if not millions and you do nothing forceful to extract that information?

Nice in theory, but the real world is a different place. Grow up.

[LS]

Ok, Michael wants a debate, let's have it.

Germany was not a "shame/honor" society. In such a case, torture (long run) probably would be a mistake.

Arab societies (and not all Iraqis are Arabs, for sure), are shame/honor based. As I argued in my book, America's Victories: Why the U.S. Wins Wars, in such societies you do not command respect by treating the other guy well---you command it through sheer power. That is why I had a student from Abu Dhabi tell me that many of his classmates "respected" Hitler. "We don't agree with him," he said (of course not, I could have added, which is the standard disclaimer many of them use), but "we respected him as a man of power." The same went for Saddam. And the same went for Bush.

I argued in America's Victories that the worst "torture" that emerged from Abu Ghraib was the pictures of WOMEN dominating Arab/Iraqi MEN. This spoke directly to the shame/honor culture, and said to them, "Our women are better than your warriors."

Now, the question is, if torture is so bad for such a society to protect itself and get information, then why, as Michael admits, once Iraq had autonomy, did the police once more go back to torture methods? Furthermore, I'd argue that the man brought his Iraqi sons to Americans regardless of Abu Ghraib!! precisely because he knows that despite Abu Ghraib, we are the fairest, most generous and just people on earth.

[rlmorel]

Well put, LS...well put.

[spookie]

crossing the equator as a polywog has been be going on for ever since they discovered this magic line. How about the process of joining a club in college? I remember everyone hitting my arm to ensure my new rate didn’t fall off. My arm was sore for a few days. I had to sweep the drill field during navy boot camp one weekend with tooth brushes. Is that torture. The dictionary provides a clear and factual meaning, not what liberals want.