Posted on 03/11/2005 1:33:18 PM PST by thefactor
Anyone looking at my posts the last few months would be able to tell I am a cop. It's no big secret. I was out today and began thinking about the shooting this morning. I watched the coverage all morning. I have some thoughts about what happened, although I only know the facts from the TV news. Please post personal opinions.
Now, I am a rookie cop. Less than 2 years on the job. On one hand I do not have the most experience. But on the other hand, being a rookie means I get the least desireable jobs. One of those is definitely transporting perps. Plus, not wanting to screw up in front of Sergeant's, rookies usually follow the transport procedure to the letter. So here are my thoughts:
1. Walking a perp.
There are a couple of circumstances that may arise when coming into contact with perps. If a perp needs to be fingerprinted or photographed, he or she can not be handcuffed, obviously. In that case, the officer must not be armed with a firearm. In all other instances, the perp is to be rear-cuffed (hands cuffed behind their back).
When moving a perp from the precinct to central booking, for instance, there is to be more than one officer at all times. And one officer is to have his hands on the perp at all times.
I had heard this defendant was not in jail at the time. He was out on bond and came to the courthouse from his home. But I assume he has to sign in every day in some sort of secure room where the deputies pick him up. He should have been cuffed, or the officer should not have had a gun.
2. Holsters
The deputy who's gun was taken was a Sergeant. So I assume she had a decent number of years on. Which might mean she was authorized to use an old holster that DID NOT have a thumbreak or a strap over the gun. It could have been an open holster in which the gun can just be lifted out. Again, I have no idea if this was the case. Plus, even if it was a thumbreak holster, prisoners in jail practice breaking the strap and removing a cop's gun. I have seen videos of prisoners teaching eachother how to break the holsters and incapacitate a cop.
This guy was on trial for gun possession and rape! If guilty, he is a violent guy. Now I am all for innocent until proven guilty, but the jury was not in the room, and officer saftey comes first. He should have been cuffed. But let's assume, as in this case, he was uncuffed and the officer was armed. If there is a struggle for an officers gun, the perp is commiting felony robbery of a firearm and deadly physical force should be used to stop him.
Now again, I work in New York, not Atlanta. Every state is different and I cannot attest to their procedures.
Guarding a violent prisoner is not a social experiment
I doubt many men LEOs get the training and experience we got and used in the military - we were highly trained to kill instantly, instinctively, quietly and without weapons or using "unusual" tactics
As far as a woman guarding me - tell me another really funny joke
PC, lousy courthouse security, inept untrained/out of shape guards, and a really "sensitive" judge got a lot of people killed today
The judge is allowed to require "concealed" electric shock belts or even shackles and cuffs
One undersized-understrength female person guarding a 6'1" - 210 pound - 33 year old basketball buff who is known to have had a machinegun and drove without a license or insurance and on trial for kidnapping and rape
A recipe for death
This killer proved his marksmanship was superior to all of the LEOs he met
He also swapped vehicles three times until he had an "invisible" car - he is not stupid - he does not hesitate
One full hour after he escaped he carjacked the third vehicle - a green Honda - only 10 blocks from the courthouse
Most of the LEOs I saw on CNN around the courthouse were chubby women, older men, really fat middle-aged men - the killer is physically in another universe - he ran down 8 flights of stairs and disappeared
PC, NOW, ACLU, MSM, and the liberal courts have lots of blood on their hands today
Some years back my buddy and I went out to a police range and watched until they were finished shooting
Then we took my carbines and my Colts and set up playing cards where they had their targets
You know the rest I think
I can still put 6 in the upper mass before most have even cleared their holster
But then I started at age 7 and hunted rabbits by starlight in tall pasture grass without killing our horses, cattle, dogs, or hunting buddies
Those who cannot respect or properly use deadly force or firearms should be selling shoes or cosmetics
We cannot afford amateurs
(I'm pretty good throwing knives too.....)
I'd like to say this will be the death of "PC" in law enforcement - but I know that is not true
Anyone want to attempt carjacking me?
Thank God I'm not the only one who didn't take crazy pills today!!! Bravo to you my friend.
Shame on You, Bro! How dare You have this "sexist" bias!.
I hope You know this is tongue in cheek, I believe You hit the problem right in the X ring. Why the Hell was a teeny little Lady expected to handle this?
Sorry, Ladies!
Problem is that rape and sodomy isn't considered violent behavior!
Glad your on our side :>)
Minor correction on facts.... The perp was NOT out on bond, that was an error. He was in custody.
And the deputy who had the gun taken was a 17 year veteran.
See post #11. You are correct. Thank you. There were plenty of things wrong with this situation. Such a shame. Complacency can kill you as Judge Napolitano said.
And someone bent on committing murder can kill anyone if they have just that moment of 'good' fortune.
I am more curious about the detail briefly reported that indicated he held the courtroom under control long enough to get people under control and some into cuffs before shooting the judge rather coldly. This was not a heat of the struggle killing. Did you hear that? If there was that much ~time~ taken before he went to flee, it is surprising there was not more response that would have kept him in the building.
You are correct
After the killer overpowered his "guard" (a young tough in-shape NFL-sized player against Pop Warner League?) and shot her in the mouth - nobody in adjoining areas or in the courtrooms were even aware of what had happened!
Instead of rushing down the 8 floors in his business suit (with Glock 9mm in a pocket) and away to a vehicle - the killer moved into the courtroom and took total control - (Where wuz Judge Roy Bean with his Colt SA?) and in a careful and deliberate manner and coldly executed Judge Barnes and the woman Court Reporter.
He then sprinted down 8 flights of stairs and confronted a man with a tow truck (he did not want him as a hostage and did not harm him) and took the truck.
Sometime after that he carjacked an SUV (red?) that he must have decided was too obvious in traffic or on any thruways.
About an hour later in a parking garage approximately only 10 blocks from the courthouse the killer carjacked the green Honda telling this driver (why?) "Get in the trunk!" -
The driver refused - was pistol-whipped (But not the tow truck driver? Hmmmm.) and the killer by that time must have figured time was not on his side (It sure was so far!) and drove the Honda F-117 Stealth Escape Vehicle out of the parking garage.
The above is a reconstruction based on CNN (Oh great!), WABC 770am NYC talk radio, my imagination, and some info gleened from this FR thread.
One defense attorney pointed out he has warned this county for years and said an adjoining county does a great job with security.
He is an ex city LEO and Deputy Sheriff and a friend of Judge Barnes.
He said he missed the incident by minutes and had left his handgun in his car downstairs (not any more I'll bet!)
One wimpy Judge tonight said it was "unfortunate" and security is a "balancing act" and "funds are limited"......
Then why is that other county doing so well in Georgia?
I just heard an woman attorney on WABC 770am News (NYC) say "This defendant had committed no violent acts before this!"
What were the charges against this killer was being tried on?
1 - Kidnapping
2 - Aggravated sodomy
3 - Rape
Hey! No big deal ladies!
He had not killed anyone yet? (that they knew of!)
I have actually seen some Judges (and one lib defense attorney - what a joke) on CNN today saying that Deputies should not even carry handguns into the courthouse or courtroom.
This killer is:
- 6'1"
- 210 pounds
- 33 years old
- plays competitive basketball regularly
- ran down 8 full floors without a sweat
- had hidden metal (I dunno - they said "metal hinges"? Beats a sharpened plastic toothbrush!) in his shoes this week
I recall that several unshacked, uncuffed terrorists were on trial and placed in the Jury Box temporarily
One jumped out and ran towards the courtroom Deputies - (after a handgun) and was tackled before he succeeded and killed them &/or the Judge
Will these killing today change things?
Well, I saw the greedy nutcase anti-gunner lobbyist from NJ touting a battery-powered "Smart-Gun" with "sensors" in the plastic grips (stocks) that he says will be the ultimate cure!
Oh Ohhhhhh! The AA batteries in my WebTV Plus wireless keyboard are running do w nnnnnnnnnnn
I have been too busy all day to get the facts on this. I will check back in when I have an informed but probably still ignorant opinion. After next Wed. I'm a senior. Mock testing sarts in three weeks.
I guess we should be thankful he wasn't under 18.
What we heard this afternoon is that he was caught with two shanks in his socks, the day before.
Prison made knives, made from spoons, whatever.
In this case I heard them refered to as doorknobs
probably from taking a doorknob off on one side and taking
the knob and shaft out of the door, it could be sharpened
to a point with some effort.
This animal should have been in better control, it's
obvious he had a personal thing against the system, and
it's certain that if the prosecutor had been there he
would have killed her too. One of the folks in the
jury from the week before said this guy gave him the creeps
as he would stare at the jury as though he was figuring
out some way to make them pay.
Marshals dropped the ball on this one, hope no more have to
die.
The TV reporter whose car was hijacked stated that the
guy took his keys opened the trunk and told him to get in.
The reporter, said NO, and made a break, it saved his life.
LOL, so no more post today huh??
On CNN today I saw the young blonde Court Reporter that came up to visit Nancy Grace.
So young.
Chilling. He executed her.
We need to put the blood on the ACLU, NAACP, federal judges, MSM, UN, Amnesty International, liberal democrats, trial lawyers - all that twisted our laws and culture to protect the evil and endanger the honest citizens.
One attorney said over 250 cases go thru that courthouse every day.
Hang 'm high!
(If Mexico and the World Court allow it)
- No -
I was attempting a (very small) bit of humor
"Smart Guns" need good batteries
Or they do not work -
You always inject humor - I missed that one but liked the 'don't have a prayer' in another one!
My father was a punster
A few of those keep him happy
You learned well. I am of the "I wish I'd thought of that' group.
Keep the cuffs tight. If you can fit a finger in there they are too loose. You also need to keep their greedy little paws facing out, and not inwards where they can meet and manipulate things. I've seen a lot of posts saying that a female deputy was possibly overpowered by a large male suspect. I don't want to second-guess anyone without being there, but a simple push of tight metal cuffs against the bone just above the wrist will bring anyone to their knees. If a perp is rear-cuffed properly a slight twist will bring him to his knees in pain.
Keep your gun side pivoted away. It seems simple enough, but complacency does set in after a while. Since I'm a rightie, I keep my left hand on a cuff ready for the twist and my right hand on the perp's right arm. My firearm is away from the subject, and he is also in front of me.
Know who you are dealing with. I've met more than one officer who transported someone without even reading the charges on the arrest report. You can't drop your guard even if its a low-level offense, but if a guy has a charge involving violence against him your adrenalin should be pumping even more. Talk to the perp. They are often quite willing to play amateur defense attorney and you can learn a lot about their mentality.
Watch the environment. I don't know if it applied in the Atlanta case, but I know that a hospital room is aready source of weaponry. There are needles around, metal silverware and lots of "medical" excuses to be lax. Nurses and doctors are often sympathetic to the "former altar boy trying to get back on track and go to college" kind of sob story. Ignore them. They know as much about perps from watching "NYPD Blue" as you do about dispensing medicine from watching "ER". ALWAYS search again...I've transported perps arested by elite units and seasoned vets and no one has EVER said a negative word to me or my partner about searching them again. It can be intimidating at first. In a way I thought the vets would think I was questioning their work by doing so, but now I understand that its a point of pride for them that we'll do it and won't turn up anything new. Don't be afraid to grab the privates either. The perps are counting on you being squeamish around there.
I'll get off my soapbox now...I still have so much to learn myself. Good post bro, and hopefully someone's life will be saved as a result of the lessons learned through today's tragedy.
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