Posted on 06/24/2002 8:00:24 AM PDT by riley1992
Cops seize driver's license from crime scene witnesses
By Jason Alley, Heritage Newspapers
LINCOLN PARK — Witness a crime or an accident in Lincoln Park and you risk having your driver’s license confiscated by police to ensure that you cooperate with them in their investigation. That’s what happened to 62-year-old Bud Butka on May 26 when he was visiting relatives and witnessed a deadly discharge of gunfire between two police officers who shot and killed a man who they said lunged at them with knives. After the shots were fired and police began their investigation, Butka went over to officers to tell them he had witnessed the shooting and could make an official statement if they needed him to. There were several witnesses milling around the area, so police took everyone’s driver’s licenses so they could be properly identified. After some time passed, Butka said, police told him that he could not have his license back until he came down to the police station the next day to file a report of what he saw. He said he told police that he needed his license back that night so he could drive home, but they refused to give it back, saying they needed to ensure his cooperation and keeping his license was how they would do it. Butka, who owns a restaurant in Wyandotte, said he sometimes needs his license for work-related reasons and could not understand why police were telling him to "break the law by driving around without a license. "They told me that if I was stopped or anything, just tell the police that your license is at the Lincoln Park Police Department," Butka said. He went down the next day with his attorney and got his license back, but said he’s not sure why he was treated like the criminal. "Cops have a tough job to do, but I’ll be damned if they have to treat us like that," Butka said. "They treated me like dirt. All they had to do is say they’re sorry." Lincoln Park police officials declined to comment, referring the matter to City Attorney Edward Zelenak, who defended the officers’ actions. "When you investigate a shooting done by police officers, you want to ensure you get all the witnesses to come forward and to give a statement," he said. "It is better to err on the side of caution." Zelenak said that Butka appeared "wishy-washy" with his statement at the crime scene "and appeared to be inebriated" and that’s why police took his license. Butka called the claim "a crock," saying he told police exactly what he saw. He also denied being drunk while doing so. "Plus, if they thought I was drunk, why would they not arrest me there. Instead they let me drive home," he said. It’s unknown how often police seize driver’s licenses, but Zelenak said doing so isn’t a common practice. "An officer acts on the scene of a crime in a manner he sees fit," Zelenak said. "I asked (police officials) and they said this isn’t standard procedure, but it is an option that officers have if they feel it’s necessary." He said he knows of other instances when it’s been done. "I know of police taking licenses at accident scenes when people are uncooperative," Zelenak said. "Everyone can argue on what is right and wrong, but that day, under those circumstances, the police just wanted the witnesses. (Butka) came back, cooperated and got his license back. He wasn’t deprived of his civil liberties or the right to drive." The executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Michigan disagrees, calling the police’s action "not a good idea." "The police shouldn’t be seizing any property at all without probable cause," Kary Moss said. "A witness has not committed any crime and should not be treated as if they had. They shouldn’t lose any of their property or their freedoms just because they don’t cooperate to the police’s satisfaction." Several Downriver police chiefs were called for this story and none said they had ever heard of licenses being taken away from witnesses. "I can’t speak for Lincoln Park, but we do not do that nor would we do that," Trenton police Chief Mark Meschke said. Allen Park police Chief Kenneth Dobson said he was shocked to hear of it going on, saying he doubts it’s legal. "I’m not aware of that being done anywhere and to be honest, I don’t believe it would be legal," he said. "I can’t think of any justification for keeping someone’s identification." Dobson said crime scenes sometimes are chaotic and police may take licenses from witnesses for an hour or so until their statements are taken, but never for much longer. "We may ask for IDs and we may hold on to them until everything calms down, but then we would return them right back," he said. "We certainly wouldn’t hold onto it (just) to ensure someone comes down to talk to us." Ralph Kinney, deputy chief of staff for the Wayne County Sheriff’s Department, said stripping people of their licenses is a serious matter that shouldn’t be taken lightly. He said he knows of people who work in immigration who aren’t even allowed to take licenses away from illegal aliens whom they arrest. "If they can’t remove licenses from people who are in the county illegally, I don’t see how you can take away a legal person’s license," Kinney said. Staff Writer Jason Alley can be contacted at
....not as rule of law dictates (sarcasm)
And it is exactly this type of attitude whick led to events like Waco, Ruby Ridge and the shooting of the boy while he lay on his stomach in California.
An officer on the scene of a crime should act in a manner in accordance with the laws and regulations of the United States. "A manner he sees fit" is a convenient excuse to rationalize all kinds of unconstitutional thuggery.
My reply: If I do not get my license back within the next 30 seconds, then I did not see or hear anything
Or; If I don't get my license back within 30 seconds, then I saw those cops pull out their guns and without a warning and for no good reason just shot that poor unarmed fellow...
Words, I'm afraid, we'll be hearing more and more often as the police state really kicks into high gear.
I HATE when I agree with the aclu!
Translation: "It is better cover your own ass than obey the Constitution."
He's got a point!
What happened out there was wrong. Nevertheless, I know a lot of cops, and I wouldn't be surprised if most of them could run circles around you intellectually.
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