Posted on 11/11/2005 4:47:36 PM PST by Wolfstar
Yes it was on the list as a defect, since in the past the children had a limited chance of survival past the parent's demise, but I think I would like to ask Wolfstar to clarify.
Wolfstar?
The sample is neither random, uniform, nor orderly.
Good post. This is a basic question that should not be easily dismissed. To ask questions is NOT to question God's existence. Suffering exists as an integral and important part of this world, and what is God's purpose in it? If we are given the charge to "grow closer to God", and seek to "know" God, we can't avoid this question.
I'm not interested in the ID part of the discussion. God is, this world is, and evolution is. I just can't understand why this is a problem.
Thank you. This is closer to what I hoped to explore. I can only say that evolutionary theory does not carry the burden of either "intelligence" or "design." It merely is. I can believe in God and believe in evolution. (I know that isn't true for some folks.)
Species which survive DO develop various survival mechanisms. A virus runs through a population, and the survivors develop immunity, for example. Then the virus mutates and the cycle goes on.
You don't know much about the Down's children or adults. They are capable of emotional and physical pain as well as everyone. They have heart disease and heart attacks. they know the difference between living and dying. If institutionalized, they often have anger which results in their being strai jacketed, given drugs, even beaten and killed.
You've jus made a lot of parent's day.
Hick argues that heaven cannot be made real now for a good and simple reason. Gods purpose and a highly commendable one is to create free, rational beings and bring them to moral perfection in an arrangement whereby people all love God and each other. The only way this can happen is for the world to be a laboratory of soul-making. This means that we must have some uncertainty about ultimate matters. It means that we learn to fight evil and love each other in a setting in which there are challenges and genuine options that can be freely chosen. In other words, sin, evil, and suffering are deliberately built into the design of the world or permitted so that we can learn through choice, defeat, struggle, and in mortal combat with evil and suffering to love God and neighbor.
In the words of Kenneth Cauthen, the only possible road to heaven runs straight through the middle of of the hottest portion of hell.
With all due respect, I don't see the difference.
Don't you get the feeling some of these people don't get out much, lol?
Don't want to come off like a broken record, but with all due respect, this discussion has zero to do with the value of children born with birth defects. It has everything to do with the concept of intelligent design, starting with attempting to have an intelligent discussion of its interpinnings.
What is the underlying premise of intelligent design? I think I know, but would prefer to have someone who understands it better than I explain it.
The word "design" infers deliberate construct. The word "intelligent" infers efficiency. ID is supposed to be a scientific theory. Yet nearly every one of the response to this thread so far are emotional and not in the spirit of scientific inquiry. That is where i wanted this discussion to focus.
So far as I can tell though, I have answered your basic question: the existence of birth defects can be explained within the rubric of ID by postulating either an incompetent or a malevolent design, preferably both.
ID is not science. You can just make it up as you go along. So, when little Billy asks his teacher: "Since life is intelligently designed, why are there Siamese twins?" then she can answer: "Because the designer is a wicked moron, dear."
Bam! It's reconciled..
It is in his list.
;-)
Questions like whether God created the world do not trouble me. When I was nine years old, I had a visit from that mysterious being called the Holy Spirit and experienced the most joyous ten minutes of my life. It only happened once but it left me with the sure knowledge of His existence and His love.
Folks, Heaven is real and it's going to be a fun place. All our questions will be answered there.
I don't presume to know anything. Do the proponents of the theory of intelligent design not welcome questions? When the theory is taught in schools, will children be discouraged from asking questions?
today maybe
Not only can intelligent design and birth defects be reconciled, they have been.
The Intelligent Designer did not take upon Himself human flesh for any reason but to reconcile the world to Himself.
The root of all birth defects is sin. The Intelligent Designer became sin on behalf of His creation, thereby reconciling the world to Himself.
So it happens that the Intelligent Designer's desire, above all things, is to show Himself as merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in grace and mercy. That's just one reason He does not intrude upon His creation in ways we might expect.
His is an everlasting mercy that applies to the best and worst of all creation from generation to generation.
BTW, that's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown.
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