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To: annalex; Buggman; Frank Sheed
If anyone will not confess that the Emmanuel is very God, and that therefore the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God ([theotokos]), inasmuch as in the flesh she bore the Word of God made flesh [as it is written, "The Word was made flesh"] let him be anathema.

Calling Mary the "mother of God" is a wholly different thing than calling her the MOTHER of God. Inasmuch as she bore the body of the incarnation and is the fleshly mother of Jesus I believe there is no disagreement in regard to her title as the mother of Emmanuel, God with us -- and in that sense (and that sense alone - she is properly referred to as the mother of God.

The problem is that when many Catholic's refer to Mary as the Mother of God, they appear to attach some spiritual significance such that Jesus (as the son of Mary) becomes subject to the will of Mary rather than Mary being subject to the will of her Lord, Jesus.

A Certain unmentionable sect in Utah believes that Jesus had a heavenly Mother and they used to teach (they now deny that they ever taught it) that Jesus was begotten in the Flesh by God the Father and thus Mary is the literal Wife of the Father (both Spiritually and physically) and the Mother of Jesus. So when we get into this "Mother of God" stuff one clearly has to tiptoe through the Heresies so that it is clear that God does not exist simply because he was the physical child of Mary.

I have actually seen posts here that suggest that if Mary had not been faithful, if it were not for Mary's part in the redemption, that Jesus would have been powerless to save the world. That is the kind of Marian Worship heresy that will keep protestants away from full communion with Rome for a long time.

69 posted on 12/27/2005 8:34:48 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe

>>Calling Mary the "mother of God" is a wholly different thing than calling her the MOTHER of God<<

I'm sorry but this statement made me laugh out loud.
I can just imagine some preacher in my old days of Protestantism saying this and shouting the word in capital letters!!! LOL!

Oh my, that is a good one.


79 posted on 12/27/2005 9:28:39 PM PST by netmilsmom (God blessed me with a wonderful husband.)
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To: P-Marlowe
Calling Mary the "mother of God" is a wholly different thing than calling her the MOTHER of God

I don't think the Ephesian Canons used any capitalization, because that grammatical device was not known at the time, so your views are still anathema. Mary is the Mother of God. We have no other God but God. If you believe otherwise, your views are of interest to antropologists but not to Christians. It is not a complicated canon.

suggest that if Mary had not been faithful, if it were not for Mary's part in the redemption, that Jesus would have been powerless to save the world.

The scripture tells us that Mary consented to the will of God, after asking further questions to make up her mind. Likewise, Eve consented to the will of Satan, after asking further questions to make up her mind. So, both women acted on their free will. This is the extent of Catholic teaching on the subject. We can speculate what would have happened if Eve did not take the fruit, or Mary did not consort with the Holy Ghost till Kingdom come; since there is no scripture to tell us anything, any non-contradictory view, including the views you cited, are valid. If you want to engage is extrascriptural speculation further, do so with whoever you cited "on this thread".

140 posted on 12/28/2005 8:41:49 AM PST by annalex
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