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To: King Prout; Alamo-Girl; marron; Heartlander; hosepipe; js1138
ok, let's cut to the chase: without carrot and stick, no god (real or dreamed up) could hold any sway over humans

Okay, King Prout, I'll stipulate for the sake of argument just as you say: No god could hold "any sway over humans" without "carrot and stick" -- whatever that means.

Still it seems to me humans "just naturally" have a great affinity for truth. And no human is ever compelled (by God at least) to accept any truth that he cannot validate for himself. Don't forget, God made man to be "free" in mind and action.

Yet I insist on a qualification to your statement: Humans who are interested in truth would be interested in God. The others can go "their own way," and take their own chances.

There is no "carrot and stick" here; there is only human reason and action, acting reasonably and in good faith.

If you have a different way of looking at this problem, I'd be most glad to hear you provide the details of how that would work -- without the foundation in truth which is God, I mean.

Thanks for writing!

1,302 posted on 05/04/2006 6:33:16 PM PDT by betty boop (Death... is the separation from one another of two things, soul and body; nothing else.)
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To: betty boop

I told you precisely what "carrot and stick" means: Heaven and hell, redemption and damnation, play by God's rules or he shoves the bat... you get the point.

Free will... irrelevant - the consequences of free choices are still imposed, a priori, by God. Remove the consequences, or completely randomize or eliminate the causal link, and "free will" becomes quite a bit freer, no?

I really do not well tolerate attempting discussion with someone who seems hell-bent on missing the obvious.


1,305 posted on 05/04/2006 6:45:59 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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To: betty boop
Good evening Miz Boop. Could we get on the same page. How does one define truth and how is it determined?
1,313 posted on 05/04/2006 7:04:11 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: betty boop
Still it seems to me humans "just naturally" have a great affinity for truth.

I disagree. Humans have an innate curiosity, yes. Humans have a highly developed ability to see patterns and to think about them, whether the patterns they see actually exist or not, and whether the rational patterns they derive from perception hold water or not. Humans are also very prone to taking refuge in the comfort of habit, and calling that comfort "truth" - whether that comfort is true, or not.

1,315 posted on 05/04/2006 7:07:47 PM PDT by King Prout (many complain I am overly literal... this would not be a problem if fewer people were under-precise)
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