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Does the knowledge that Tiananmen Square ultimately brought about the shedding of the blood of several thousand patriots, somehow bring to us the belief that that blood shed for liberty must now be understood as an evil, and that the thugs who wielded the weapons which cut down those patriots must now be understood as representatives of the good?

God bless you for sharing this quandry, dear YHAOS. I imagine that at least some of the people who have difficulty answering your challenge may have a serious "truth problem."

But I imagine I shouldn't be so hasty. The wise course is to wait to hear what the person(s) you address have to say about the matter.

I also imagine that if they will to answer the question you pose in good faith, they'd find they first need a standard, a criterion of truth and judgment that is not their own "creation." Otherwise, there is no common ground in truth according to which society can give its just assent.

Thank you for your beautiful and perceptive post, YHAOS.

"But I imagine I shouldn't be so hasty. The wise course is to wait to hear what the person(s) you address have to say about the matter."

Well, it seems your wait is over, that you have your answer, and that your judgment is not at all hasty.

"I also imagine that if they will to answer the question you pose in good faith, they'd find they first need a standard, a criterion of truth and judgment that is not their own "creation." Otherwise, there is no common ground in truth according to which society can give its just assent."

And so it would seem that even an ordered 'polis' is limited (may we even say crippled) if that 'order' is but one dimensional.