Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Evolution moves more quickly than scientists thought
The Kansas City Star ^ | November 18, 2006 | Eric Hand

Posted on 11/19/2006 1:00:27 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger

ST. LOUIS - Evolution happens. But it can also stop and turn on a dime.

A new study of lizards in the Bahamas shows that the natural selection pressures that drive evolution can flip-flop faster than previously thought - even in months.

"Darwin was right about so many things," said Jonathan Losos, a former Washington University biologist who led the study. "In this case he was wrong. He thought that evolution must occur slowly and gradually."

The lizards and their changing leg lengths are yet another case of evolution occurring in real time. From finches that evolve longer beaks in a few years to bacteria that adapt to strange feeding regimens in days, evolution, as a science, has leapt out of musty museums and into the field.

Scientists say that, from a political perspective, the cases offer a vivid reminder of the continuous process that some people imagine proceeding only in fossilized fits and starts: First monkey, then man.

But for the scientists themselves, the cases show that evolutionary biology has, well, evolved into a predictive, experimental science like any other.

Losos had the perfect Petri dishes: 12 tiny islands in the Bahamas with small populations of insect-eating Anolis sagrei, six-inch long lizards that normally live on the ground but can adapt to life in trees.

On six of the islands, Losos introduced a predator, a large curly-tailed lizard that can gobble up the lizards. He theorized that at first, the fastest prey would survive as they ran for the trees. Natural selection would reward long legs. Then, as the little lizards adapted to life in trees, nimble twig maneuvers and shorter legs would be rewarded.

At the start of the experiment, the scientists, using dental floss nooses on the ends of 10-foot poles, caught all lizards and carefully measured their hind-limbs. After the first six months, their predictions held up. The average leg length of survivors was 2 percent longer than those that were killed. After a year, leg length was 3 percent shorter. The changes were small in absolute terms but statistically very large, said R. Brian Langerhans, a graduate student with Losos.

The study appeared Friday in the journal Science. Losos did the research while at Washington University, but left for Harvard University in June.

The lizard study echoes one of the classic cases of evolution-in-action: Darwin's finches on the Galapagos Islands. For more than 30 years, Princeton University biologists Peter and Rosemary Grant have measured changes in the finches' beaks. After extended droughts, small seeds became more scarce. In a few years, the finches evolved longer beaks to crack the larger, tough seeds that remained. Then as more plentiful times returned, the bird beaks got smaller again.

At Michigan State University, Richard Lenski is studying evolution in test tubes. For almost 20 years, he has reared 12 colonies of E. coli. They have divided more than 30,000 times - which, in terms of human generations, is longer than Homo sapiens has been around. Lenski has challenged the bacteria with strange feeding patterns - feeding them sugars, then starving them.

The colonies all adapted, quickly. But they used different genetic tricks to get there. Their DNA is now remarkably different: an example of parallel evolution.

It's difficult to know how an organism will adapt, and also how subtle environmental changes will kick evolution off in a striking new direction, said Ken Petron, a University of Cincinnati ecologist who worked with the Grants on their finches.

For example, on one trip to the Galapagos during a time of seed scarcity, the Grants expected to find the trend toward larger beaks. But a new, larger finch had colonized the island and was eating the larger seeds, Petron said. It was no longer an advantage for the smaller finches to grow larger beaks.

"It's very difficult to predict the outcome of evolution before it happens," he said.

But if biologists can get better at predicting evolution, it could have applications for areas in which humans are altering the environment and causing evolutionary pressures themselves, Langerhans said. Stanford University ecologist Stephen Palumbi has estimated a $50 billion "evolution bill" associated with the antibiotic and pesticide resistance that bacteria, weeds and insects have evolved in medicine and agriculture.

Had the experiment continued, Losos expected the lizard legs to get even shorter with successive generations. But two hurricanes in quick succession submerged the little islands. "All the living lizards were washed away. Bummer," Losos said.

Some eggs survived, however, and hatchling populations are growing. Losos plans to start the experiment over.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: crevolist; evolution; naturalselection; religionisobsolete
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 501-550551-600601-650 ... 951-992 next last
To: shuckmaster

We will leave it with you. Thanks.


551 posted on 11/22/2006 7:01:07 PM PST by Texas Songwriter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 547 | View Replies]

To: shuckmaster

We will leave it with you. Thanks.


552 posted on 11/22/2006 7:01:10 PM PST by Texas Songwriter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 547 | View Replies]

To: jonathanmo

I agree completely with your post #512....you nailed it...


553 posted on 11/22/2006 8:32:06 PM PST by andysandmikesmom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 512 | View Replies]

To: taxesareforever
Backing up my claim:
http://www.icr.org/
Another reference: The Holy Bible

*Heck!* Even LC is more specific ! *Gosh!*

BTW, Newton wasn't a liar, though his mechanics were shown to be incorrect. Even Aristotle was no lier, though spilling a lot of claims which were shown to be false later.
The reason: Up to their best knowledge, they told the truth. That's the difference to your posts

554 posted on 11/23/2006 12:38:13 AM PST by si tacuissem (.. lurker mansissem)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 545 | View Replies]

To: RunningWolf; Junior; jennyp; DaveLoneRanger; Coyoteman
That image has been there since Sept 21 2006.

Central Archivist/Junior, for somebody who has been throwing around the label "liar", you certainly exposed yourself as fitting the bill completely. Your disavowal in post #541 is the height of being disingenuous.

You can argue for your belief in evolution. However, to use an image of a dildo on a debate opponent, man.. don't you guys have any pride?? That is so eighth grade. For a bunch of "scientists", your credibility is sinking into the gutter, along with your website.

I felt a little sympathy for your cohort earlier this month, but I'm seeing what Jim Robinson saw, when he started cutting you folks down to size.

555 posted on 11/23/2006 1:07:22 PM PST by Moorings
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 549 | View Replies]

To: Junior; RunningWolf; gobucks; mikeus_maximus; JudyB1938; isaiah55version11_0; Elsie; LiteKeeper; ...
Junior, I'm finding it very hard to believe that you so blatantly lied just now. The claims of "liar!" fly fast and thick, and are rarely truly applicable in the sense that someone willfully distorted facts. (IE, a lot of evolutionists really DO believe in evolution, so what we argue about is whether or not the facts support evolution)

However, this case is the exception. You have demonstrably put forth a complete and utter falsehood regarding your treatment of me on your forum.

When RunningWolf called you on that, you make absolutely no reply. This cannot stand. Either respond, or any further appearance you make on Free Republic will be to your discredit and shame.


556 posted on 11/23/2006 2:48:24 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 541 | View Replies]

To: RunningWolf

Appreciate the little revelation there. It sure cuts into anyone's credibility to be caught red handed like that. Just to let you know that people are out there seeing it.


557 posted on 11/23/2006 3:27:42 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 549 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger

You have demonstrably put forth a complete and utter falsehood regarding your treatment of me on your forum.

You really are a drama queen.

558 posted on 11/23/2006 5:07:28 PM PST by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 556 | View Replies]

To: si tacuissem

But the BIG LIE calls God a liar. Sounds like you sign on to the BIG LIE and therefore you are calling God a liar. You can call me a liar all you want but if you say God is a liar you will have to answer to Him, not me.


559 posted on 11/23/2006 5:24:41 PM PST by taxesareforever (Never forget Matt Maupin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 554 | View Replies]

To: RunningWolf

It's a dildo dipwit. Well, I can see where you might have made the mistake, having never seen the real thing before.


560 posted on 11/23/2006 5:25:26 PM PST by Junior (Losing faith in humanity one person at a time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 549 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger

Running Wolf, and you, for that matter, can't tell a dildo from the real thing.


561 posted on 11/23/2006 5:27:30 PM PST by Junior (Losing faith in humanity one person at a time.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 556 | View Replies]

To: Junior

DLR and RW make a good pair. I advise everyone from this point on to regard them as joined at the hip.


562 posted on 11/23/2006 5:37:41 PM PST by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 561 | View Replies]

To: Moorings

Eighth grade placemarker.


563 posted on 11/23/2006 5:44:43 PM PST by Mamzelle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 555 | View Replies]

Disapproving old hag placemarker.


564 posted on 11/23/2006 5:53:19 PM PST by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 563 | View Replies]

To: ml1954

You shouldn't say such things about yourself, ml.


565 posted on 11/23/2006 6:03:18 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 564 | View Replies]

To: Mamzelle

Eighth grade? That's pretty generous.


566 posted on 11/23/2006 6:04:15 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 563 | View Replies]

To: ml1954
You think creationism and intelligent design are joined at the hip too. So I'm afraid your credibility is considerably lessened on that front.

In the future, when you attempt to insult someone, it would be good of you to ping them as a courtesy.
567 posted on 11/23/2006 7:55:58 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 562 | View Replies]

To: Mamzelle

Took me five tries to get through that stage. *Chuckles*


568 posted on 11/23/2006 7:57:46 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 563 | View Replies]

To: Junior; RunningWolf
Oh YES, Wolf, for GOODNESS' SAKE. It wasn't the image of genitalia, it was the image of a FAKE one. Honestly! Of all the hurtful errors to make.

And you are correct. I proudly admit and proclaim, I have never seen a dildo before.
569 posted on 11/23/2006 8:00:06 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 560 | View Replies]

To: Junior
I was trying to be gentle with you, I see that is impossible, much as reasoning with a dumb ox would be impossible. Here is your sex education.

dildo - Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dil-doh]

–noun, plural -dos. Slang. an artificial erect penis, used as a sexual aid.

Man, you and that website are nothing but juvenile punks, and that is probably an insult to juvenile punks as a whole
570 posted on 11/23/2006 8:14:04 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 560 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger

Dildo Central?


571 posted on 11/23/2006 8:18:09 PM PST by Mamzelle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 569 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger

You need to tell RW that you consider being associated with him insulting.


572 posted on 11/23/2006 8:22:36 PM PST by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 567 | View Replies]

To: ml1954

I figured you'd respond that way. But I responded based on your motivation, not how I received it. If I responded based on how I received everything, all you'd see is a bunch of laughing heads.


573 posted on 11/23/2006 8:37:15 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 572 | View Replies]

To: Mamzelle

I am SO resisting using that moniker for them. Mostly because it would come across as vulgar to those who don't know the back story.


574 posted on 11/23/2006 8:38:03 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 571 | View Replies]

To: Junior; DaveLoneRanger; RunningWolf
image
1. a physical likeness or representation of a person, animal, or thing, photographed, painted, sculptured, or otherwise made visible.

But why even bother about that site? It's like being called the boogeyman by the neighborhood bully. So what?

575 posted on 11/23/2006 8:47:40 PM PST by AndrewC (Duckpond, LLD, JSD (all honorary))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 561 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger; RunningWolf; Mamzelle
I wonder where the chorus of condemnations for that kind of behavior and that kind of lying is?

All I hear is ***crickets chirping***

Must be since none of the evos are condemning it they are giving it their whole-hearted approval. It says a lot about the group as a whole.

576 posted on 11/23/2006 8:49:49 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 556 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger

I don't blame you for not wanting to be associated with RW. But you really should tell him that. Don't you think that would be the right thing to do?


577 posted on 11/23/2006 8:49:58 PM PST by ml1954 (ID = Case closed....no further inquiry allowed...now move along.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 573 | View Replies]

To: Junior; DaveLoneRanger
Good try to get away from the fact that you and your web site behave that way, thats how you treat your guests.

It is unreal & bizarre, there is no explanation for it.

W.
578 posted on 11/23/2006 9:14:00 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 561 | View Replies]

To: ml1954; DaveLoneRanger
Look I don't care if DaveLoneRanger wants to be associated with me or not. I don't need him and he does not need me, we stand on our own.

But if nothing else you evos are very effective at relentlessly attempting to steer the discussion to an area that favors you, in this case away from just how sleazy and pathetic the evo ping list members = dildo-central really is.

But it aint working.

W.
579 posted on 11/23/2006 9:18:49 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 572 | View Replies]

To: metmom

Aren't the crickets lovely this time of year? I think they chirp to stay warm, which just adds that little touch of gusto brought on by half-frozen insects.

I tend not to assume just because the evos don't condemn it is a reason to assume they support it. For example, how do we know that they've seen this interchange? I'd love to ask them, but they won't let me on their forum, and they're staying off this one like vampires avoid garlic.


580 posted on 11/23/2006 9:32:57 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 576 | View Replies]

To: ml1954

#573, mate, #573.


581 posted on 11/23/2006 9:33:25 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 577 | View Replies]

To: AndrewC; DaveLoneRanger; Junior
But why even bother about that site?

I agree. I don't know why you even signed on to that place DLR. It would be like getting to close to the baboon cage and wondering why you got pelted with crap.

The only reason I knew about it someone told me of the RW tribute thread /sarc> they were having over there dedicated solely to your truly, then they hid or deleted the entire thing. Were they worried about slander/ Or maybe they want to save their best material to let it out a little at a time, say a dildo here.., Who knows what they'll do next in the name of science, it seems nothing is beyond or below their imaginations.

W.
582 posted on 11/23/2006 9:43:00 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 575 | View Replies]

To: RunningWolf

To keep tabs on them. They're sitting behind the wall they erected, and hurl insults at our effigies, and openly mock faith and cuss out Freepers because they disagree. I didn't want that going on unchallenged. But the hyenas couldn't take having a dissenter in the ranks, and so they nuked my account for unspecified, unjustified reasons.

I can't seem to locate a recent post of mine where I detailed the offenses of DarwinCentral. Perhaps J-Ro removed it. Either way, it's a laundry list of the insults they're over there lobbing at us.


583 posted on 11/23/2006 9:50:49 PM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 582 | View Replies]

To: metmom; DaveLoneRanger
As I see it there is not a nice way to treat baboons people like the ones attracted into that cult of dildo darwin central.

Actually I don't mind what they say about me except it gives me a lot of material to work from with them. I guess I don't like gang up punks though and thats pretty much how they operate on these threads. I know I am not nice to them except when they are nice to me. However when I am not nice with them, I have never went to near the depth they will go to 'demolish' their opponent. I am not as religious in my beliefs as they are toward theirs.

I said a long time ago that these debates were an inlook into a psyche to a degree. We see the 'birds of a feather' that would treat a guest like DLR on their forum and find it acceptable.

We have plenty of genuine atheists and scientist at the FR, and they don't feel the need to engage at the level of the evo cult list.

Well I am always open to criticism of course, as long as its genuine and sincere.

Wolf
584 posted on 11/23/2006 10:01:31 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 576 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger
I can understand that, especially since many are freepers in good standing.

Wolf
585 posted on 11/23/2006 10:04:11 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 583 | View Replies]

Comment #586 Removed by Moderator

To: RunningWolf; Hacksaw; Coyoteman; Junior; DaveLoneRanger
"They don't treat their guests very well either. Doing things like replacing DLR's avatar with an image of a penis, then locking him out so he cant change it."

Gosh, I've never actually been to that site. I actually thought that Darwin Central, or whatever it is called was a sort of cult group found on college campuses or something.

I'm watching George Carlin talk about "entropy" as I post this.

If that site is reduced to posting such images as what is alleged above, then I'd say that it is not likely to be later counted as among the "fittest" scientific opinion sites as its survival is unlikely. I mean seriously, who could take it seriously?

Entropy makes a lot more sense to me than does Darwinism, which is antithetic anyhow to that notion.

587 posted on 11/23/2006 10:37:52 PM PST by Radix (This Tag Line would be a better joke about John Kerry if I hadn't left out 2 words and mangled it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 539 | View Replies]

To: Radix
See #549, its not alleged. Its Troll Central at its best.
588 posted on 11/23/2006 10:43:53 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 587 | View Replies]

To: RunningWolf

It is not a penus, its a dildo.

Oh, OK, now they make sense.


589 posted on 11/23/2006 10:53:09 PM PST by Radix (This Tag Line would be a better joke about John Kerry if I hadn't left out 2 words and mangled it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 588 | View Replies]

To: Radix
Oh, OK, now they make sense

Not really

You did not see how they used it. They replaced DLR's avatar image with that dildo (which is an image of a erect penis) and then locked him out so he could not change it back for a while.
590 posted on 11/23/2006 10:57:42 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 589 | View Replies]

To: RunningWolf

I get it.

They are "science" oriented because they reject "Authority."

They do not see themselves as the reincarnation of Pope Innocent III.

Conspired to undermine the rule of kings, and later when the rejection of authority tidal wave hit or flooded the church, "that was different."

Someday I'll write a book.

Nutshell....

That Pope incited the formulation of the Magna Carta....

"The great charter of freedom."

I see things my way....

The Neodarwinists want to be "the Authority" and that makes them no better than the folks who suppressed Science for generations and centuries, and even millenia....

They use the Courts to help them enforce their BS doctrines.


591 posted on 11/23/2006 11:21:28 PM PST by Radix (This Tag Line would be a better joke about John Kerry if I hadn't left out 2 words and mangled it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 590 | View Replies]

To: Radix
And so then, history will yet again repeat itself.


Or the more things change, the more they stay the same.
592 posted on 11/23/2006 11:28:57 PM PST by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 591 | View Replies]

To: RunningWolf

Just happened to be reading this thread and caught your exchange. The little trick they played with the avatar, is not even highschool level. It's gradeshool.


593 posted on 11/24/2006 12:25:46 AM PST by TAdams8591
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 590 | View Replies]

To: Jaguarbhzrd
You were treated quite well over there, it was your personality and immaturity that finally got you banned.

ROTFLOL!! I've read the exchanges over there and he was constantly taunted and ridiculed. As for the image, if that's your idea of treating someone *quite well*, well, the gutter level that you've been accused of reaching is way too high.

As for the fact that there are other creationists who post there and they aren't banned yet, I suppose that's *evidence* of how open minded and tolerant you are. If you want to back up that claim, you HAVE to allow some of the other side on. It's nothing to brag on.

594 posted on 11/24/2006 6:24:55 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 586 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger; RunningWolf

We've heard from only three evos. Not such a good track record...

The tally so far is:

condemn - 0
condone - 3


595 posted on 11/24/2006 6:27:48 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 580 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger
I tend not to assume just because the evos don't condemn it is a reason to assume they support it. For example, how do we know that they've seen this interchange? I'd love to ask them, but they won't let me on their forum, and they're staying off this one like vampires avoid garlic.

How do we know that they've seen this interchange?

Because what one knows they all know. They run together in a pack, like a bunch of lemmings.

Since there's nothing stopping them from posting here, the only reason I can think of for them not to speak out against it, is because they approve of it.

596 posted on 11/24/2006 6:53:12 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 580 | View Replies]

To: Jaguarbhzrd
You were treated quite well over there, it was your personality and immaturity that finally got you banned.
Was that before or after I was called a punk, full of luddite nonsense, insulated, smart a**, cretard, a lightweight, or when I was told to "shut the f*** up and get the f*** out" etc?
BTW, a Penis, is not a Dildo. I know that you have probably not seen either one of those things RW, but that is your problem not mine.
Wolf was the one that said that, but he said it was an image and Junior acted completely indignant, as if they would NEVER stoop to such depths. And then turns around and says it wasn't the real thing, it was an image of one. Well hey, isn't that what Wolf said?

Your deception is working only on your own selves.
597 posted on 11/24/2006 7:33:51 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger ("I am here to fight evil and exchange good-natured barbs." - The Tick)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 586 | View Replies]

To: Jaguarbhzrd

Oh look! Another DC troll. Why don't you go home newb? You've been insulting FReepers since you joined 90 days ago.


598 posted on 11/24/2006 8:04:32 AM PST by Michael_Michaelangelo (The best theory is not ipso facto a good theory.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 586 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger
At the start of the experiment, the scientists, using dental floss nooses on the ends of 10-foot poles, caught all lizards and carefully measured their hind-limbs.

Sure they did!

599 posted on 11/24/2006 11:32:35 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DaveLoneRanger
The average leg length of survivors was 2 percent longer than those that were killed. After a year, leg length was 3 percent shorter.

Yup: sure PROVES Evolution, all right!!!

600 posted on 11/24/2006 11:34:16 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 501-550551-600601-650 ... 951-992 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson