Bare Knuckle Religious Discussion

6/25/08 | self

[stuartcr]

Do you not believe that God knew what Lucifer was going to do before He created him?

[Tennessee Nana]

I can only give you the words of Jesus and those who knew Him..

And tell you that I know the Bible is true..

It is a complete instruction book on how to operate a human..

I was born again when I was 8..

And started then to read the Bible through every year...

Filled with the Holy Spirit, by age 10, I would talk to God as I walked to school..

I was speaking in tongues, but did not understand the concept other than I felt wonderful..

And He would speak to me..and told me of things to come..

When I started preaching at 16, I only had one message other than salvation..

“Jesus will keep you from wanting to sin”

And I dont think I said sin..(taboo word)

I never went through the junk other kids get into..I had no pressing desire to..

I just wanted to serve God...

And so I have...for more than 50 years..

In all those years God has never lied to me or had to say Whoops I guess I am unable to do that..

When I have prayed for people and laid hands on them..they have recovered...

The miracles I have seen in my own life and the lives of others are too numerous to tell here..

I will say that when I had cancer, Jesus healed me..

When I had a stroke...Jesus healed me..

When someone planned to kill me, God threw him across the room and he changed his mind..

When a young man had a broke arm God told me to pull his arm out straight and I did and it was completely healed

(That was a wild event LOL)

The only times in my life that I have had undue trouble are the times I disobeyed God..

God is tougher on those who know better than on baby Christians..

But God will still get us out of our own stupidity..

He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. Psalm 40:2

...I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. Hebrews 13:5b

Whenever something is not right in my life I go straight to God ..

I check myself first to see if I am in error and “invited” the trouble ..

If it’s me I repent and ask God to forgive me...

If it’s not me, I attack the problem in the Name of Jesus..

We are fast approaching the end ...

It seems like the world is getting meaner and more wicked..

But Jesus warned us of these times..

He said that things would get worse in the end..

And He also said ...

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:28

[stuartcr]

Why would there be a wrong faith, if that was the way God made it? Why would God even need a wrong?

[MEGoody]

You have not answered why there cannot be a truth for each of us

My 'truth' is that I am a genius. Your 'truth' is that I am retarded. My 'truth' is that I am a caucasian of Welsh and English descent. Your 'truth' is that I am a black person of Ethiopian descent.

Do you actually believe that, because be both have our 'truth' that both of us are correct?

[Quix]

At this point, I’m increasingly inclined to believe it’s yet another seductions and successful propagandizing efforts of the enemy to conform humans to his sensibilities instead of ‘allowing’ us unfettered to choose GOD’S SENSIBILITIES.

I’m reminded of David dancing before the Ark . . . there are other Scriptural examples of ‘outrageous’ worship that pleast God greatly.

Thanks for your kind comment.

[stuartcr]

That’s great, but what about those people that do not believe in the bible the same as you? Why would God make them that way?

Doesn’t God see all of that before the person is even born?

But you’re not God. You didn’t create that person or the situation, or all the people that voted, knowing what would happen...you just observed it.

If God cannot be wrong, how can anything that He knows is going to happen, have a different result?

[stuartcr]

How do you KNOW the bible is the only truth?

[stuartcr]

We are not talking about physical or mental attributes, we are talking about faith/belief.

[ejonesie22]

I think there are a couple of components you are missing. One is the gift of freewill, the other is the fact that there is good and evil, and forces working for both. Even Satan himself was created by God, and given the gift of freewill, and choose to abandon his creator.

So there is good and evil, right and wrong, and yes all was created by God, and allowed to continue. Could God strike down Satan, most assuredly, but then his creation of Freewill would become unneeded, and that is not what he wants. He wants his children to have the right to choose.

You seek a more complex god, I suggest nothing is more complex that a Father who made such a universe as ours, where freewill and the battle of good and evil are allowed to go head to head, where his children are allowed to choose sides, and own their faith. The purpose of faith is to seek the truth. Therefore somewhere there must be one Truth, because not everything can be true. If it were there would be no evil, no sin, because if one's faith says a particular sin is OK and all faiths are co equal, all equally good, it would no longer be a sin.

[greyfoxx39]

In all other faiths, the “god” figure makes demands, takes from their followers then tells them they may or may not see heaven. Their “god” basically says “here's a list, get these things done and I may let you in”. Their “god” is a greedy one, and the only other spiritual entity with any real power out there in reality is the evil one himself. He is the one who is always interested in taking, ultimately the very souls themselves. Who then would be the entity in charge of these other faiths, the ones that like to “take” from their adherents...

Well put!

[Fantasywriter]

The Bible says that it is the revealed, inspired word of God. You are free to reject that claim. That is your choice. God created you and gave you that choice, knowing that you might use it to reject Him. His only alternatives were not to create at all—not an option, since creativity is part of His nature—or to create robots with no free will and no choice, but simply endowed with a mechanical functionality that forced them to do whatever He wanted them to so and prevented them from deviating in any way, shape or form. He chose to create man in His image, thus imbuing us with free will.

This is my last post on the subject. It’s not that I have run out of answers. It’s rather that I am of the impression you’re not really reading these answers (at least not in more than a superficial way). You don’t appear to have read and researched the Bible much at all, let alone extensively, and so your doubts about it are uninformed at best. It looks to me as if you have presupposed that God has NOT revealed Himself via the Bible. Well that is a self-fulfilling presupposition which will happily (from your perspective) lead you exactly where you want to go every time.

I wish you all the best, but I do wish you would take more time to think about and research the things that you appear to dismiss so lightly, and yet that are so crucial to your afterlife.

[Tennessee Nana]

How do you KNOW the bible is the only truth?
___________________________________________

I know the The Bible is the true Word of God..

God told me..

Why would you think that it is not ???

[rbmillerjr]

“I have no idea what happens after death. I would hope that there is something else, but I cannot comprehend what it could be...
No, I’m mostly just soliciting answers. When I hear something different or unique, I’ll let you know.”

You seem to be making a critical misktake in your inquiries:
1) using logic to attempt to get an answer regarding your faith and others faiths...
....Belief in God requires faith. Logic is useful, but ultimately, faith is what makes you a believer in any religion. Faith is built upon by many things, Grace from God, Prayer, and in general, a deeper spiritual life. Your attempt to use logic solely will leave you floundering about from straw man to straw man.

If you genuinely want answers, you need to attempt to gain a deeper spiritual path.

[Tennessee Nana]

we are talking about faith/belief.
________________________________________

Now thast you have narrowed the subject down..

Hbr 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Hbr 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Hbr 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Hbr 11:4 ¶ By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Hbr 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Hbr 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.

Hbr 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Hbr 11:8 ¶ By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

Hbr 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as [in] a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

Hbr 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker [is] God.

Hbr 11:11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

Hbr 11:12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, [so many] as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

Hbr 11:13 ¶ These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of [them], and embraced [them], and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Hbr 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

Hbr 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that [country] from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

Hbr 11:16 But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Hbr 11:17 ¶ By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

Hbr 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Hbr 11:19 Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Hbr 11:20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.

Hbr 11:21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, [leaning] upon the top of his staff.

Hbr 11:22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

Hbr 11:23 ¶ By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw [he was] a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king’s commandment.

Hbr 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter;

Hbr 11:25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

Hbr 11:26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

Hbr 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Hbr 11:28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

Hbr 11:29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry [land]: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

Hbr 11:30 ¶ By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.

Hbr 11:31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

Hbr 11:32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and [of] Barak, and [of] Samson, and [of] Jephthae; [of] David also, and Samuel, and [of] the prophets:

Hbr 11:33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,

Hbr 11:34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.

Hbr 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Hbr 11:36 And others had trial of [cruel] mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

Hbr 11:37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

Hbr 11:38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and [in] mountains, and [in] dens and caves of the earth.

Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

Hbr 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Hebrews 11:1-40

[ejonesie22]

That is one thing that always bothers me about calling it “faith” or “belief”. We are too timid in our love and knowledge sometimes for my tastes.

I want to make a bumper sticker that says “God is Fact”, for to me that is what God is, a fact. His Son is a fact. His grace is a fact.

Given these facts I read his word, which in turn is a book of fact, and I accept that his is the way, the truth and the light. Therefore any other way is false, and not of the Father, but put in front of us by his enemies.

I do know the bible is the only truth, because it is, because a very real and loving God told me so. Therefore I know it the same way I know water is wet and fire is hot, it is a simple and observable fact.

[stuartcr]

I do not believe that we truly have freewill. With God, I do not believe there is a good or an evil.I believe we each have a plan that God gave us to fulfill.

If God knows what we will do before He creates us, and He cannot be wrong, how can we possibly do anything other than what He knows we will do?

How do you know the purpose of faith is to seek the truth? With God, why can’t we have different true beliefs?

[Tennessee Nana]

We are too timid in our love and knowledge sometimes for my tastes.
___________________________________________

Yes, that’s why we are told...

For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1:7

Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways. James 1:6-8

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Hebrews 4:16

[annalex]

The Catholic understanding of “born again” in John 3 is that it is a reference to baptism. Yes, it is necessary to be baptized to be Christian. It is not necessary to join a Protestant community of faith that calls its members “born-again” and has a certain worship style assoiciated with it, to be Christian.

[count-your-change]

I have to say I find it a bit tiresome explaining the definition of terms just to be able to talk to someone but since it seems necessary in this case I will.
“Opinion” means a judgment or belief without sufficient support to become fact. Since your pejorative “drama queen” is without definable boundaries, its like saying someone is “fat”, but without a comparison to what or who, so it fits the definition of “opinion”. Your opinion stands by its self regardless of what I think. Or what you link to as “fact”, an observation that may explain your opinion but doesn't change it into something else.
Your subjective opinion cannot be checked since by definition it is a view, a thought that exists in your mind not in the objective (outside world of objects) world. Posters exist objectively, as do their posts, as does a pound of something. They have qualities that can be measured by some other standard. Your opinions cannot and are therefore subjective (existing only as part of the subject).
Citing other's opinions doesn't change any definitions given. The Supreme Court issues “OPINIONS”, SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS. They will not rule on whether the planet Mars has water or whether lead is heavier than an equal volume of wood. These are objective qualities that can be measured and exist whatever opinions are offered.
That the Court's opinions are authoritative opinions doesn't change those subjective opinions into objective fact.
So yes, a court can “rule”, it can decide one way or another, it can offer opinions but it cannot rule on whether the earth is round or whether sea water contains salt. These are objective states. Thankfully so.
“Relativism” refers to a criteria of judgment or opinion. Is a judgment reached because of the situation or circumstance instead of a set criteria evenly applied.
Your question, “How much do you embrace it?” is like asking whether I've quit beating my wife yet.
Yes, There is objective truth, beyond opinion but when persons cannot logically separate the two they can become arrogant and rude, seeing their subjective opinion as absolute, objective truth. Not cute.

[stuartcr]

I’m sure that you believe it, and am sure that you believe you are correct in your concept of God, but how do you KNOW it? How do you KNOW the bible is the only revealed, inspired word of God? Because God said so? How do you KNOW God didn’t reveal something to someone else, something different?

What you have is a very strong faith, which is commendable, but I do not believe you have knowledge.

I’ll be back tomorrow or maybe tonite.