Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

To: Bokababe
The fact is that ultimately Croats couldn't hold the border against the Turks alone and called in Austro-Hungary to do it -- the Krajina (military frontier) was virtually empty of Croats, many were killed off and the rest escaped to the interior. No Croat who was sane and prosperous wanted to die there, given a choice.

The Serbs couldn't hold the border against the Turks and were overrun. Croatia was almost overrun itself and suffered major population losses but held on for a lot longer than the Serbs.

So the Empress Maria Theresa invited Serbs from Ottoman conquered Bosnia to inhabit the deserted Krajina in Croatia. She promised the Serbs that they could keep their religion and way of life, as long as they defended against the Turks -- so they did. This is how Serbs would up in what was the old Krajina of Croatia in the first place. Huge numbers of Serbs died there, defending the Croatian border.

Those were Vlachs, not Serbs. That is why the document guaranteeing their rights was called the Statorum Valachorum. They were Serbianized at the end of the 19th century. Secondly, the Vojna Krajina always had a Croatian majority population...the Vlachs were brought in to fill the gaps.

But once the Turks were no longer a threat, and the Krajina was eventually abolished, the Croats wanted the Serbs to either convert to Catholicism or get out.

Patently nonsense. Orthodox Croatians played a large role in Croatia after 1881, with men like Borojevic, Preradovic and Runjanin leading the way. Recall that Starcevic's mother was herself an Orthodox Vlach.

Croatians wanted their land back from those Serbs and the only way they could get it was to drive those Serbs out or kill them off -- so during WWI, WWII, and the last war, Croats did both.

During WW1, the Serbs of Croatia fought in the Habsburg Army. There was no "cleansing of Serbs" in Croatia during WW1. In the last war the Serbs cleansed themselves, as they themselves have admitted.

33 posted on 01/18/2009 7:48:00 PM PST by Diocletian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies ]


To: Diocletian
"So the Empress Maria Theresa invited Serbs from Ottoman conquered Bosnia to inhabit the deserted Krajina in Croatia"

"Those were Vlachs, not Serbs"

> MS Encarta:

Slavonia was under Turkish occupation for more than a century, ending in 1699. At that time, it was transferred to the Austro-Hungarian Empire. In the 18th century, under Empress Maria Theresa, Serbs were invited into parts of Croatia including Slavonia, in order to garrison the frontier with the Ottoman Empire. Except for a brief interval during the Napoleonic Wars, when it was incorporated into the so-called Illyrian provinces, Slavonia remained under Habsburg rule until 1918, when it became part of the new Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, later called Yugoslavia. During World War II it was part of the fascist Independent State of Croatia.

37 posted on 01/18/2009 11:01:54 PM PST by Bokababe ( http://www.savekosovo.org)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies ]

To: Diocletian
In the last war the Serbs cleansed themselves, as they themselves have admitted...

You're getting absent minded Dio. That is, you forgot to mention that General Gotovina is a hero.

55 posted on 01/19/2009 6:14:10 PM PST by LjubivojeRadosavljevic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies ]

To: Diocletian

Erratum & corrigendum:

FOR “Statorum Valachorum”
READ “Statuta Valachorum”. On his way to the Forums Diocletian mught drop into a library or check with someone who knows Latin.


91 posted on 01/28/2009 6:41:34 AM PST by maher (m)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies ]

To: Diocletian

Those were Vlachs, not Serbs. That is why the document guaranteeing their rights was called the Statorum Valachorum. They were Serbianized at the end of the 19th century. Secondly, the Vojna Krajina always had a Croatian majority population...the Vlachs were brought in to fill the gaps.


Wow! An excellent point:)

What about the privileges from the previous rulers such as Ferdinand I(1538), Mathias Corvin(1481), Sigismund(1404, 1428), Vladislav II and II, Queen Beatrix and Anna? Vladislai and Matyas colonised all together 300, 000 Serbs in Hungariae to fight agains the Turks? Even King Matyas wrote to the pope Sixtus on few occasions about that. The Vienna and Graz archive are loaded with paperwork about the Serbs.
In those documents they mentioned the Serbs(Servianos, Rascianos)? Ferdinand’s ambassador to Porta Mr Busbecquii(”Turskish Letters”c) writes in the 1550’s that the Serbs live all the way to Drava river. What about the 1604 special document that was published by the Jesuit scholar Nicolaus Nilles about the colonisation of the Serbs in Slavonia?

The document was issued by Dvorska ugarska kancelarija?
What can we do about the tombstone in the Franciscan monastery in Zadar where a catholic Serb was burried(Serviani, Zovinichio). Croatian historian Grga Novak published a report(1572) by the Dalmatian general providur Foscarini in 1964(JAZU, Zagreb) where the providur calls the population along the Bosnian border on the Turskih side “Morlacchi de fede serviana”(Morlaci srpske vjere)?
How about the special povelja of Vladislav Posmrtni, he mentiones the Serbs in Zagreb, Kalnik, Koprivnica in 1447? Bogavac Milakovic was a Serbs that governed Zagrebacko polje in 1450’s as Ivan Tkalcic published a document(Monumenta Zagrabiae). And there is also a mention of the Serbs.

The emperor Leopold I, againg calls those people the Serbs. Maria Theresia’s minister Bartenstein writes about the Serbs. Croatian historian Adami Balthasari Kerschelich writes in his history of the Zagreb Church(1770) that the Serb Uskokse emigrated to Lika, Udbina, along the river Kupa in the 16th century. There’s far to many sources to destroy your argument about the Vlachs. :)

The Vlachs are based in Istria today and they called themselves “Rumeri” and spoke “lingua Rumer” a few centuries ago. The italian historian De Croce writes about this in his history of Trieste publish at the end of the 17th century. They are the real Vlachs, or the Aromunians. Nicola Jurisic, the Croatian nobleman wrote to King Ferdinand and separated the Serbs from the Vlachs, as they call them the old Romans(Alt-Romer). They indeed moved up to Vojna krajina, sometimes with the Serbs, sometis separate and they decided to go to Istria. But they preserved their own language even today, whilst the Serbs speak stokavian not a Romance language as the best Croatian expert on the romance languages Petar Skok wrote that the Croatian Serbs do not have anything Vlach or Roman in their speech!

I rest my case.:)


106 posted on 03/18/2009 5:23:40 AM PDT by Rasciano
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson