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Can You Help America?
Self ^ | 11/30/2002 | B4Ranch

Posted on 11/30/2002 8:03:21 AM PST by B4Ranch

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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
LOL! That was quick!

I have recieved some interesting supportive responses for this idea. I have not seen anyone else advocate anything like it.

I wonder if it might grow legs?

Can anyone see a downside?

41 posted on 11/30/2002 9:44:31 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: MistyCA
stop making the trek so attractive in the end!

Good point, but this has indeed been addressed before and in failed miserably.

False documents and cash payrolls defeated any progress. Families that are now in place provided a place to live, etc.

42 posted on 11/30/2002 9:48:35 AM PST by Cold Heat
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Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: wirestripper
Can anyone see a downside?

My first thought was the necessity for these new border guards to be armed. Thus, I see the potential for a number of unfortunate shootings as a result of the lack of quality recruits entering this new civil service. They would need to be very well trained before being unleashed.

It's one thing to mold a Marine recruit to kill in a foriegn land. Quite another to unleash a less qualified individual on our own soil toting the same weaponry...or close to it.

All of which can be dealt with by selecting quality applicants and training them properly.

44 posted on 11/30/2002 9:51:23 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
My first thought was the necessity for these new border guards to be armed.

Frankly, I see no reason for all of them to be armed. Modern non-lethal defensive weapons would be sufficient. An armed special unit could cover any situations where arms may be needed. (regarding the Mexicali's)

45 posted on 11/30/2002 9:58:15 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: MistyCA
So we sit and twiddle our thumbs and wait until we are forced out of our homes and off our property.

That has already happened to lots of people. Many, many others are dropouts and we are paying for them through social security disability, and on and on.

The only way I see things getting better is for the cost of living to go way down. Even then there wouldn't be the type of jobs to support it for enough people.

Come on. We are living on borrowed time and borrowed money. It won't last forever.

This is a problem than can't be solved by fighting. Sorry I feel that way. I don't know where it will end.

In the meantime, I think people who are in thinking mode should think as innovatively as they can and try to make their own jobs somehow and not depend on corporate or government daddies who only enslave you in the long run.

We have almost 1/5 of our population having jobs paid for out of tax revenues at the federal, state, and local levels. These jobs contribute NOTHING to the GNP. Then we have thousands of jobs which suck up money in the health and insurance fields. All necessary, I suppose, but produce no revenue. Most of the rest of the jobs pander to people who don't or can't do things for themselves like service, carpet installation/cleaning, etc.

Farmers are another category and the average person can never hope to break into that field.

What kinds of jobs are left for our kids? Even college is going to be no guarantee to get and keep a job that will keep one in a decent lifestyle in the future.

46 posted on 11/30/2002 10:02:33 AM PST by Aliska
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
I think the training that these folks should get would be more in line with the MP type training. Courses in law and crowd control, hand to hand and police type training would be the best. Some basic weapons training would be required, but not emphasized.

try not to think in military terms, but more along police and security lines.

47 posted on 11/30/2002 10:05:25 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: wirestripper
Oh, come on. I know that it hasn't worked but one reason is highlighted in my own home town of Santa Barbara. The powers that be there built (just recently) a whole facility where illegals can eat, shower, rest, relax, and que up in marked lines on new cobblestone streets while they wait for the next pick-up for day labor! What the heck is this all about? The city reasons that it is better to not have all these people peeing in the streets and creating messes, plus they will add to the tax base! HELLO! I was parked in the mall parking lot while a Mexican man took his little kid to pee on the planter right in front of me! HELLO! The day laborers are paid in cash! They don't contribute a thing to our tax base! What happened to the paddy wagons that use to pull up over there and take those guys back to Mexico? What happened to the inspectors who use to go into businesses and do unannounced sweeps to check documentation?

For God's sake, this is the same town where a little over a year ago they arrested almost all the workers from China who were illegally working in the Chinese restuarant. It was no problem for them to do that, yet they conveniently ignore the workers who are flipping tortillas!

Mind you, my family comes from Scandanavian roots. But we are blessed with spouses and new relatives by marriage who are here legally from Mexico. I cherish them more than anything! But I watched as one of the relatives paid $1,000 to have her sister brought across the border to find work. She was provided with new papers. I am very conflicted because I realize that this particular girl is very likely to be a contributor to our economy and probably should have been allowed to come here because she had a sponsor who could afford to assist her while she looks for work. What has happened to the legal process of being able to bring people in who are responsible? It doesn't seem to even exist anymore! It is frustrating for the people who would actually like to do things the right way but can't. Any one of us can probably point to places where illegals are employed, many of whom are paid under the counter in cash. But you know darn well if I can point to them, so can the authorities. And they DO NOTHING!

48 posted on 11/30/2002 10:10:15 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Aliska
I agree with something you said.....I have always taught my kids to create their own work...control their own destiny. There are reasons why I can understand your defeatest attitude, but it is defeatest, nonetheless. :)
49 posted on 11/30/2002 10:14:00 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Aliska
This is a problem than can't be solved by fighting. Sorry I feel that way. I don't know where it will end.

The problem that we have is not the fact that we allow immigration, it is the fact that they are coming in illegally, and in too great a number to assimilate in a organized and careful way.

This must stop now! The stability of our governments at the state and local level is at stake. Even national programs are being sapped of scarce resources.

The safety of our people is at stake, and our children are at risk.

50 posted on 11/30/2002 10:16:13 AM PST by Cold Heat
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Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: wirestripper
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush gave the go-ahead Wednesday for Mexican trucks to travel U.S. roads beyond commercial border zones where they have been restricted while inspection sites and new regulations were put in place.
Carlos Olemedo of the National Council of Mexican Professionals (?) was on O'Reilly Factor squaring off against Colorado Congressman Tom Tancredo on the administrations plan to push amnesty for illegal aliens from Mexico. Olemedo was presenting the tired argument that the illegals are economically necessary and that rounding up and deporting millions of them would be inhumane.

Well, I've been doing a lot of thinking about the illegal aliens and the politicians whining about not having enough money, continually wanting to raise our taxes as a solution to the budget problems. Washington is sending feelers out to see if we will riot over an amnesty.

This just might be a solution. See if you like it.

Educate a couple of hundred energetic people to an idea like this one. Youngsters who feel American Patriotism is a finer character asset than national Diversity is. Yes, us patriots do obey the laws.

Then these people would need to go face to face with the residents of your lightly populated rural county and explaining how it would work and benefit them, their kids, and their grandkids. Have a website that would explain just why this is being done. Explain the costs to each individual community because of the illegal alien residency and immigration.

It is obvious that INS and the State Dept are corrupt. Attempting to correct the corruption is the wrong way to fix the problem. Asking the government to remove these illegal aliens hasn't worked so far. We need to get them to leave by themselves. Taking away public support and the jobs us Americans need will do this. Rounding up the illegals and removing them will fix the problem!!!

Get your local population educated to the idea of electing a Sheriff who will go face to face with the Federal government. He is going to need legal advice on how to do all of this. Ideally you would want local attorneys or judges to provide this advice. Hey, before you run off...the local attorneys and judges have kids and grandkids too. Not all of them are socialists.

Sheriffs are the top LEO in each County. They have been ignoring the laws we want supported. We must demand they support us. Now getting the Sheriff and County officials to go along with it, is of course another subject. Just maybe you might be able to find someone who thinks as I do, that illegal aliens are parasites in America, and they would also spread the idea amongst the citizens of your County. Then the citizens could write a petition to force the Council and Sheriff to follow their instructions.

If you have a Sheriff and local County officials of a lightly populated County with a budget deficit and the abnormal high taxes who will declare that all illegal aliens from every nation will be arrested and removed from the County in 30, 60 or 90 days the program is on it's way.

All assets not removed from the County must be assigned by the illegal alien to be sold with registered agents or they will be seized by the Sheriff and sold. These funds will be divided between the Sheriffs Office and the County budget offices for expenses.

All people employing illegal aliens will also be arrested and fined. Perhaps $5000 per employee. This would prompt employers to demand that their employees bring in birth certificates, etc. I think there is a federal law forbidding this, I'm not sure. But so what? If they won't protect America then we must do it. This also keeps the government out of our personal records any more than necessary.

The hiring of legal immigrants that have entered the US legally with the legal assistance of Immigration and Naturalization Services will of course be encouraged. Only the hiring of illegal aliens will be reason for arrest and stiff fines. It is already against the law to hire an illegal alien. These people have already broken too many of our laws for us to continue to turn our heads.

Advertizements should be placed in the newspapers of the surrounding counties to obtain legal workers for the farm, ranch, gas station and local K-Mart to replace the ones who are leaving. A local 800 number could be updated daily with jobs available in your County.

All people giving aid or care to illegal aliens would also be arrested and fined. This would include all legal aliens who have family members that are illegal aliens.

This will result in no or very few illegal aliens going to the local hospitals for medical attention. The hospital will start making money again instead of heading into bankruptcy.

This will also bring welfare for illegal aliens to a screeching halt. This alone will do much for your local budget and taxes.

School districts would require much less money because the new residents in the county would certainly be more able to speak English. I think schools already check for birth certificates and medical history. They currently conceal from the INS who is an illegal student or school employee.

Imagine what that would do to surrounding Counties with similar budget deficits. Would the residents agree to more taxes or would they say get the lawbreakers out of here?

Do you think it might convince the State officials when enough Counties have adopted these measures that we citizens are serious in our desire to protect our communities from being over run by illegal aliens? Would this prompt them to follow our guidance and issue state laws that demand the law enforcement agencies to enforce ALL the laws or their budgets get cut?

I think half a dozen community residents that are involved in the legal system and the business community could work out what to do to make an idea similar to this work in your community.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

For the legal minded folks I have included a statement from one of the cases that made it through the Supreme Court. Unless there are State laws forbidding such actions as I have suggested, I think everything legally is above the table. A local judge could give the Sheriff advice on how to handle the little tweak of the laws.

"The federal Gov't may neither issue directives requiring the States to address particular problems, nor command State' officers, or those of their political subdivisions, to administer or enforce a federal regulatory program. It matters not whether policy making is involved, and no case by case weighing of the burdens or benefits is necessary; such commands are fundamentally incompatible with our constitutional system of dual sovereignty."

Justice Antonin Scalia, Mack vs US., June 27, 1997

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---

The way I see it is that given the opportunity and enough notice to move their families safely, the illegal aliens would pack up and leave rather than fight a Sheriff who is broadcasting that just because the Feds aren't going to enforce the immigration laws, doesn't mean he isn't.

Employers would rather make a company policy that all employees must prove that they are American citizens or in the United States legally than be fined $5000 per employee for supporting open border policy.

Give employers a chance to advertise for critical employees who are currently illegal aliens so their businesses don't suffer a drastic skill shortage.

Just as an add on, I imagine that the local crime rates would be continually dropping until it again reached an acceptable level.

Surrounding rural counties would surely catch on quickly to the benefits and start similar programs. All it would take is one newspaper article about their city council needing money for some more public services. There is much more rural county land in the US than cities in county land, that's why I am promoting a rural county to start with.

The residents are more apt to be on a handshake basis with their elected official than residents of large cities are. I think that it wouldn't take too long before cities would simply not be able to afford to support all the illegals who are on taxpayer paid benefits. Consequently, like it or not they would have to fall in line.

I have no idea how fast an idea such as this would spread and actually take firm hold causing neighboring state legislators to look at the idea BEFORE their state was swamped with illegal aliens and the taxpayers rose up demanding immediate solutions. The crime rate amongst illegals is very high as it is. A plan such a this could send it through the ceiling, so caution would be advised on initiating it in a city. Vandalism and riots would probably occur in some areas, so the Governor would need to be ready with the State National Guard Units.

This could be dangerous because it could foster hate and anger. Too much anger would result in radicals bringing out their guns chasing the illegals out of their neighborhoods. We have seen gang wars and the resulting violence, this could be worse. So, it will have to be a slow, calm, well organized plan in each county!

Our intention is to bring the population of our neighborhoods into patriotic, law abiding folks not to be ravaged by foreigners who have nowhere to go. Eventually, I can see where states would have to cough up the funds and or transportation for the people to get back to Norway, Brazil, Australia, Japan and China.

The first States to do this emigration plan will encounter the least expenses. Of course I would expect it to happen, if it ever does, in Western States.

If we continue to allow to let the Feds handle it, they will continue to dilly dally around like they been doing and the problem will never be solved. So, the way I see this, the STATES are going to have to stand up after too many years on our knees to the self promoting, egotistical big shots in the Federal Legislature and the Federal Agencies. We need to show them that we'll fix the problem ourselves. Imagine if our citizens brought a halt to Agenda 21, that would set the United Nations on its rear end!!

Notice the direction of travel in this definition.


\Em`i*gra"tion\, n. [L. emigratio: cf. F. ['e]migration.] 1. The act of emigrating; removal from one country or state to another, for the purpose of residence, as from Europe to America, or, in America, from the Atlantic States to the Western.*

Lets change the worlds idea of where to emigrate from and to! We have given education and work experience to millions of illegal aliens. Now lets give them a chance to see if they can do it for themselves back home!!!

If you think this might work, phone some local friends to see what they think of it.

Why not email other friends with this idea and see if we can't get it started. Of course there will surely need to be modifications to initialize it and perhaps different ideas to promote it. Each County is slightly different and we don't want extreme radicals promoting it or else it will surely sink into oblivion.

Here's another piece to look at.

52 posted on 11/30/2002 10:19:15 AM PST by B4Ranch
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To: wirestripper
Another sore spot of mine....police training and techniques. We have tied the hands of our police departments by inadequately providing them with what they need to function effectively. The first of those needs being strong MEN who have met qualifications which are stringent. We have lowered the standards to meet this absurd idea that competition and high standards will somehow infringe upon the rights of those who can't measure up! And the Unions are a joke! We have men and women who join the forces just long enough to find some feeble excuse to sue for damages...sexual harrassment, etc. Again...we go back to personal responsibility. We have an environment where responsibility is a dirty word.
53 posted on 11/30/2002 10:20:00 AM PST by MistyCA
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

To: MistyCA
We are in total agreement here!

It is just that I have seen efforts made to prosecute companies who hire them, and they have failed, for the most part.

The lawyers simply say that the company was not aware of the violation. It just does not work by itself. These regs however, do need to be enforced.

55 posted on 11/30/2002 10:22:02 AM PST by Cold Heat
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To: B4Ranch
Thank you for this thread. It is raising my blood pressure which tends to be too low to begin with! :) Good job, and good luck! I need to take a break.
56 posted on 11/30/2002 10:22:14 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Drill Alaska
57 posted on 11/30/2002 10:23:06 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: wirestripper
You are talking about prosecution. I am talking about cleaning out the work force. You can't run a good bakery or whatever when your work force is being carted back to the border! Prosecution is one thing, but cutting into the profits is quite another. Shut their doors for a few days as many times as it takes.
58 posted on 11/30/2002 10:25:47 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: B4Ranch
It's your choice, you decide what to do before it is too late.

One necessary step is to dump the RINOs who facilitate this illegal invasion.
I did my part by helping rid the Senate of Spencer Abraham from Michigan.
Unfortunately, Dubya made him Energy Secretary.
So instead of developing a sensible Energy Policy, Spence is now out promoting hydrogen automobiles.
A clear message has GOT to be sent to the so-called GOP "leadership" to get it to penetrate their thick skulls.

59 posted on 11/30/2002 10:28:38 AM PST by Willie Green
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To: MistyCA
Shut their doors for a few days as many times as it takes.

Yes, but the reality is that the police chiefs and Sheriffs, along with the judges and prosecutor's are elected!

They protect their contributers.

This is unfortunately the reality.

60 posted on 11/30/2002 10:30:53 AM PST by Cold Heat
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