Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article

To: MadIvan
You're missing the point. Parents pay for that school, their kids participate in it, surely they should have a say in how it is run, and what policies it adopts. If it were a private school and parents there were paying for it in a more direct fashion, you would be in no position to argue this point.

I'm afraid you're missing the point---this happened at a public school, not a private school.

Then arrangements should be made so she can get changed for class. This does not trump the parents and their kids right to have a say in how their school is run and what policies their school adopts.

That's not the issue here: the issue is that a girl was denied the ability to attend a class based on what she might do, or what others might think. It never got to the point of an actual solution to the "problem" because the solution to the problem was throwing the girl out of class.

Again you're missing the point. If I start up a men's only club, where men can talk about sports and fishing all day and exclude women, I am breaking your precious "treat equally" clause. But as it's my premises, I am not actually going out and harming anyone, you can clear off.

Public vs. private, Ivan.

Now it could be she isn't causing discomfort - note, I suggested that they ASK the girls in question how they felt about it. If there are barriers to the girl actually participating in class, that's another matter entirely - because the mother of the lesbian teen paid for that service to be delivered, and thus the school has a responsibility for it to be delivered.

What do you mean "if there are barriers to the girl actually participating in class, that's another matter entirely"? That's exactly what happened. The barrier to the girl actually participating in the class was her being sent to the principal's office instead of being allowed to attend gym class. Did you not read the story?

My notion of the statist heart beating in a libertarian chest is very simple: while the libertarians on this board may not agree on everything, at the same time, they have very precise ideas on what the rest of us should be forced to tolerate.

That's because "the rest of you" often equate what you're forced to tolerate as actionable offenses. Nobody's asking the rest of you to tolerate lesbianism. What they're asking you to do is to allow a girl who self-identifies as a lesbian to attend gym class like any other girl could. Her mere presence among "you all" doesn't incite or propogate lesbianism, does it?

156 posted on 12/18/2002 12:18:11 PM PST by Hemingway's Ghost
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 152 | View Replies ]


To: Hemingway's Ghost
I'm afraid you're missing the point---this happened at a public school, not a private school.

Do the parents pay for it or not? (They do.) And as they pay for it, do they have a say in it or not?

What do you mean "if there are barriers to the girl actually participating in class, that's another matter entirely"? That's exactly what happened. The barrier to the girl actually participating in the class was her being sent to the principal's office instead of being allowed to attend gym class. Did you not read the story?

You're getting emotional. The ultimate point is whether or not she should be sharing changing rooms with the other girls. I suggested they ask the other girls and their families. You, in your ultimate wisdom, want to impose a policy.

That's because "the rest of you" often equate what you're forced to tolerate as actionable offenses. Nobody's asking the rest of you to tolerate lesbianism. What they're asking you to do is to allow a girl who self-identifies as a lesbian to attend gym class like any other girl could. Her mere presence among "you all" doesn't incite or propogate lesbianism, does it?

Nice try. Propgating lesbianism isn't the issue here. It is a matter of the rights of parents and children to determine how the schools which they pay for are run. You are saying that even if the girls feel uncomfortable, and their parents agree with them, they have NO RIGHTS whatsoever to have the lesbian girl change in another room. You are saying that the parents have to just lump it, and that's all.

I am saying, ask the girls if they want to have her in the same changing room. If not, set up an alternative facility. As gym class is something that takes place (more or less) fully clothed, the "peep show" element which determines why changing rooms are divided in the first place is gone, and thus the girl should be allowed to attend - she's paying for it, after all.

This has nothing to do with liking or disliking homosexuality. If I had a daughter, and she told me she was uncomfortable changing with this girl and her friends felt the same, you would be telling me that in spite of the fact I spent money on the school, I would have no recourse.

Ivan

157 posted on 12/18/2002 12:25:56 PM PST by MadIvan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 156 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Smoky Backroom
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson