Pheobe Debates The Theory of Evolution

Original scene from the show... Friends. ^ | NA | NA

[Mr.Atos]

I was just lisening to Medved debating Creationism with Athiests on the air. I found it interesting that while Medved argued his side quite effectively from the standpoint of faith, his opponents resorted to condescension and beliitled him with statements like, "when it rains, is that God crying?" I was reminded of the best (at least most amusing)debate that I have ever heard on the subject of Creationism vs Evolution, albeit a fictional setting. It occurred on the show, Friends of all places between the characters Pheobe (The Hippy) and Ross (The Paleontologist). It went like this...

Pheebs: Okay...it's very faint, but I can still sense him in the building...GO INTO THE LIGHT MR. HECKLES!!

Ross: Whoa, whoa, whoa. What, uh, you don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: Nah. Not really. Ross: You don't believe in evolution? Pheebs: I don't know. It's just, ya know, monkeys, Darwin, ya know, it's a, it's a nice story. I just think it's a little too easy.

Ross: Uh, excuse me. Evolution is not for you to buy, Phoebe. Evolution is scientific fact. Like, like, the air we breathe, like gravity... Pheebs: Uh, okay, don't get me started on gravity.

Ross: You uh, you don't believe in gravity? Pheebs: Well, it's not so much that ya know, like I don't *believe* in it, ya know. It's just...I don't know. Lately I get the feeling that I'm not so much being pulled down, as I am being pushed.

Ross: How can you NOT BELIEVE in evolution? Pheebs: [shrugs] I unh-huh...Look at this funky shirt!!

Ross: Well, there ya go. Pheebs: Huh. So now, the REAL question is: who put those fossils there, and why...?

Ross: OPPOSABLE THUMBS!! Without evolution, how do YOU explain OPPOSABLE THUMBS?!? Pheebs: Maybe the overlords needed them to steer their spacecrafts!

Pheebs: Uh-oh! Scary Scientist Man!

Pheebs: Okay, Ross? Could you just open your mind like, *this* much?? Okay? Now wasn't there a time when the brightest minds in the world believed that the Earth was flat? And up until what, like, fifty years ago, you all thought the atom was the smallest thing, until you split it open, and this like, whole mess o' crap came out! Now, are you telling me that you are so unbelievably arrogant that you can't admit that there's a teeny, tiny possibility that you could be wrong about this?!?

Pheebs: I can't believe you caved. Ross: What? Pheebs: You just ABANDONED your whole belief system! I mean, before, I didn't agree with you, but at least I respected you. Ross: But uh.. Pheebs: Yeah...how...how are you gonna go in to work tomorrow? How...how are you gonna face the other science guys? How...how are you gonna face yourself? Oh! [Ross runs away dejected] Pheebs: That was fun. So who's hungry?

[Nebullis]

If not, I'm afraid the contract is toothless.

Not only toothless. It's counterproductive. All the "evildoers" will joyfully sign on and continue their merry ways, emboldened by a document that will be used to legitimize their behavior.

[AndrewC]

For lurkers, simply google on evolutionary or genetic programming with dynamic fitness.

Did you have a point for me?

[<1/1,000,000th%]

I think the contract is a great start A-G. I second the motion to start a thread to discuss.

[CobaltBlue]

Catholics tell jokes about Catholics all the time. Some samples:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tommy goes into a confessional box and says, "Bless me father, for I have sinned. I have been with a loose woman."

The Priest says, "Is that you Tommy?"

"Yes father, it is I."

"Who was the woman you were with?"

I cannot tell you... For I do not wish to sully her reputation."

The priest asks, "Was it Brenda O'Malley?"

"No father."

"Was it Fiona MacDonald?"

"No father."

"Was it Ann Brown?"

"No father, I cannot tell you."

The priest says I admire your perseverance but you must atone for your sins. Your penance will be five Our Fathers and four Hail Marys.

Tommy goes back to his pew and his buddy Sean slides over and asks, "What happened?"

Tommy replies, "I got five Our Fathers, four Hail Marys and three good leads."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Jewish Pope Debate

About a century or two ago, the Pope decided that all the Jews had to leave Rome. Naturally there was a big uproar from the Jewish community. So the Pope made a deal. He would have a religious debate with a member of the Jewish community. If the Jew won, the Jews could stay. If the Pope won, the Jews would leave. The Jews realized that they had no choice. So they picked a middle aged man named Moishe to represent them. Moishe asked for one addition to the debate. To make it more interesting, neither side would be allowed to talk. The Pope agreed.

The day of the great debate came. Moishe and the Pope sat opposite each other for a full minute before the Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. Moishe looked back at him and raised one finger. The Pope waved his fingers in a circle around his head. Moishe pointed to the ground where he sat. The Pope pulled out a wafer and a glass of wine. Moishe pulled out an apple. The Pope stood up and said, "I give up. This man is too good. The Jews can stay."

An hour later, the cardinals were all around the Pope asking him what had happened. The Pope said, "First I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up one finger to remind me that there was still one God common to both our religions. Then I waved my finger around me to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground and showing that God was also right here with us. I pulled out the wine and wafer to show that God absolves us from our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of original sin. He had an answer for everything. What could I do?"

Meanwhile, the Jewish community had crowded around Moishe. "What happened?" they asked.

"Well," said Moishe, "First he said to me that the Jews had three days to get out of here. I told him that not one of us was leaving. Then he told me that this whole city would be cleared of Jews. I let him know that we were staying right here."

"Yes, yes, and then?" asked the crowd.

"I don't know," said Moishe, "He took out his lunch, and I took out mine."
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Genesis Revisited... By a Man (Submitted by Father Pius)

Adam was walking around the Garden of Eden feeling very lonely, so God asked him, "What's wrong with you?" Adam said he didn't have anyone to talk to. God said he would give him a companion and it would be a woman.

He said,"This person will cook for you and wash your clothes, she will always agree with every decision you make. She will bear your children and never ask you to get up in the middle of the night to take care of them. She will not nag you, and will always be the first to admit she was wrong when you've had a disagreement. She will never have a headache and will freely give you love and compassion whenever needed.

Adam asked God, "What will a woman like this cost?" God said, "An arm and a leg."

Adam said "What can I get for just a rib?"

The rest is history.
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Genesis Revisited... By a Woman (Submitted by Father Pius)

One day in the Garden of Eden, Eve calls out to God, "Lord, I have a problem!"

"What's the problem, Eve?"

"Lord, I know you've created me and have provided this beautiful garden and all of these wonderful animals but I'm just not happy."

"Why is that, Eve?" came the reply from above.

"Lord, I am lonely. And I'm sick to death of fruit."

"Well, Eve, in that case, I have a solution. I shall create a man for you."

"What's a 'man', Lord?"

"This man will be a flawed creature, with aggressive tendencies, an enormous ego and an inability to empathize or listen to you properly. All in all, he'll give you a hard time. But, he'll be bigger and more muscular than you. He'll be really good at fighting and kicking a ball about and hunting fleet-footed ruminants, and ..."

"Sounds great," says Eve, with an ironically raised eyebrow.

"Yeah, well. But, you can have him on one condition."

"What's that, Lord?"

"You'll have to let him believe that I made him first."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Top 10 Biblical Ways to Get a Wife

1) Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head, trim her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she's yours.
-- Deuteronomy (Deuteronomy 21:11-13)

2) Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock.
-- Moses (Exodus 2:16-21)

3) Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal.
-- Boaz (Ruth 4:5-10)

4) Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one and carry her off to be your wife.
-- Benjaminites (Judges 21:19-25)

5) Have God create a wife for you while you sleep. Note: this will cost you a rib.
-- Adam (Genesis 2:19-24)

6) Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman's hand in marriage. Get tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven years for the woman you wanted to marry in the first place. That's right. Fourteen years of toil for a woman.
-- Jacob (Genesis 29:15-30)

7) Even if no one is out there, just wander around a bit and you'll definitely find someone. (It's all relative of course.)
-- Cain (Genesis 4:16-17)

8) Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest.
-- Xerxes or Ahasuerus (Esther 2:3-4)

9) Wait for your brother to die. Take his widow. (It's not just a good idea, it's the law).
-- Onan and Boaz (Deuteronomy or Leviticus, example in Ruth)

10) Don't be so picky. Make up for quality with quantity.
-- Solomon (1 Kings 11:1-3)

A wife?...NOT!!!
-- Paul (1 Corinthians 7:32-35)
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http://www.catholicsites.com/jokes/

[exmarine]

Aesthetics are in large part driven by physiology.

Got some science to back that up? I highly doubt it. Show me the gene that causes me to think that a sunset is beautiful. I said nothing about sexual attraction - from the beginning I spoke of sunsets - why do you insist in interjecting this angle - because it's all you got? This is just another example of the presupposition and speculation that infests neodarwinian theory.

[js1138]

I suppose we need to start a new thread to dump the baggage of this one. I can abide by most conditions unilaterally, but I'd like clarification on a bunch of things. A thread aimed specifically at clarification would be nice.

[conservababeJen]

The difference is that an Athiest directed a Fundamentalist joke at a Fundamentalist.

Do you think I would be complaining about an Athiest poking fun at himself as you just did? That is the fundamental difference!!!

[Right Wing Professor]

I think it's a pretty fair first draft, but it needs tightening.

Re making people 'feel unwelcome'. This suffers from the same problems difficulties sexual harassment law suffers from. We have no way of objectively ascertaining what makes someone feel unwelcome. For example, I find my freshman chemistry students start to feel unwelcome at the first hint of math. :-)

Re having posters banned: some people deserve to be banned. JR bans several per day. If someone is routinely posting personal attacks, we should by all means seek to have them banned.

Re profane: I moved to Nebraska from New York. In New York 'profanity' is a very short list of obscenities. In Nebraska 'profanity' still includes 'hell' and 'damn'. If we're upset at people, we really do 'darn them to heck!'.

It's also awfully tough to distingusih between 'belittling and mean' words and sharp criticism. If someone posts something that contains grade-school-level errors of fact, it's tough to point out those errors without belittling the poster. I mean, you can avoid saying anythig about the poster at all; you can even avoid characterizing the post as 'silly'. But just listing the errors, if they are sufficiently copious, will seem very belittling. I'd therefore suggest you also include a clause that people try to make the initial assumption that contrary posts are not malicious or personal, unless there is real positive evidence otherwise. A thick skin is necessary on a forum like this.

Otherwise, it's a reasonable code of conduct. I particularly like the 'correction of errors' part.

[CobaltBlue]

I think General Re already explained it to you. Aesthetics is in part hardwired and in part cultural.

Take, for example, rap music. Or polka music. Or velvet paintings of Elvis.

[conservababeJen]

I should correct that post to say... As you, a Catholic just poked fun at yourself/Catholics.

I also want to clarify...that I may be wrong about Aric being an Athiest. Its hard to keep up with who shares what faith around here. But regardless... I KNOW he is no Fundamentalist Christian, which IMHO makes his joke in bad taste (in THIS atmosphere). I might laugh at it in a bar. Not here...particularly because it's pretty evident what his motivation was.

[Nebullis]

[Right Wing Professor]

The objects either started on opposite sides of the saddle(they are different) or they were on the unstable part of the saddle at "initiation".

Suppose you have a single population that is split in two by a change in climate, so the middle of the geographical region is uninhabitable by that species? This happens, e.g., with mountain-dwelling species in the West. When the climate was colder and wetter, they were distributed all over the region. When the climate dried and heated up, they were forced upwards into isolated mountain ranges, and since have drifted apart. The Great Plains has had the same effect on many species of birds. There are the various relic species of pupfish in the lakes of SW Nevada and SE California; speciated after one big lake started to dry up. What happened, in terms of my hand-waving mathemetical analogy, is that they inhabited a fairly flat region of evolutionary space, which develped a saddle or even a ridge thanks to external changes.

[CobaltBlue]

I used to have a very thin skin about lawyer jokes but finally came to accept that they come with the territory.

When people don't know that I am a lawyer and tell lawyer jokes, I pretend I think they are funny.

When people do know that I am a lawyer and then haul out the lawyer jokes, I think they're either hostile or passive-aggressive, which is kind of the same thing.

So, yes, I think Aric's jokes were probably hostile at worst and passive-aggressive at best.

[AndrewC]

[balrog666]

Take, for example, rap music. Or polka music. Or velvet paintings of Elvis.

Hell, no! You take 'em!

[exmarine]

I think General Re already explained it to you. Aesthetics is in part hardwired and in part cultural.

I see... you have no science - just assertions. Is a sublime sunset hardwired or cultural?

[AndrewC]

Okay, I'll buy that. We now have California and Nevada pupfishes just like we have Aboriginal Australian humans and Laplanders.

[CobaltBlue]

Is a sublime sunset hardwired or cultural?

Beats me.

What do you think?

[Right Wing Professor]

We now have California and Nevada pupfishes just like we have Aboriginal Australian humans and Laplanders.

Similar timescale, but far more pupfish generations. Anyway, discussing speciation with respect to human races, even in the most careful of terms, will generally bring a horde of people accusing you of being a Nazi/whie supremacist/racist, so I ain't going there. That's what we mean when we say we want a 'dialog' on race. It means that if anyone says anything even slightly beyond the standard clichés, we'll tear his tongue out.

Ach sin scéal eile.

[conservababeJen]

So, yes, I think Aric's jokes were probably hostile at worst and passive-aggressive at best

It's nice to finally come to an agreement with you.