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To: Coleus

You give numbers that are fabricated. You have no way of knowing whether one oocyte or 24 were harvested each time, and you have no way of knowing how many embryos were fertilized. There is absolutely no way of knowing whether any embryos were frozen. I wish you had not made this personal and that you had not accused anyone of killing.

I appreciate the work that the Catholic Church has done for the prolife effort, but for every help (and the men you name have been incredibly helpful. I was privileged to hear Dr Dorflinger at the Center for Bioethics and Human Dignity conference last week), there is a hindrance such as this. What a shame we can't agree on not taking life. I remember the debates breaking down in the early 70's when we had so much to gain if we had been able to stick together in opposing abortion --- and we lost.

Stick with stories like last week's story from the NYTimes to teach. Or pick your audience with more care.


73 posted on 07/25/2004 11:38:52 PM PDT by hocndoc (Choice is the # 1 killer in the US)
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To: hocndoc; Coleus
I appreciate the work that the Catholic Church has done for the prolife effort, but for every help ... there is a hindrance such as this.

The Catholic Church hasn't changed. It has, does, and always will oppose all abortions, both those done in abortuaries and those done with the Pill and IVF and Patch and the like, and those done in the name of some perceived good (life of the mother, in order to have another child by IVF, etc.)

If there is some disagreement with this position, it is because other pro-life people believe there are exceptions to the Catholic Church's 100% position. It was these very exceptions that Justice Blackmun used to prick the pretensions of the Texas Attorney General in Roe vs. Wade, since Texas had a Rape/Life of the Mother exception to its law that said "Murder is wrong except ..." Since Texas allowed some killings in a limited manner, it was rather illogical of the State to argue that its law was protecting the 14th Amendment rights of persons to Due Process.

Frankly, I don't see the moral difference between 1% exceptions and 100% exceptions to the right to life of unborn children other than a shift in the quantity of killings.

Until the rest of the pro-life folks are willing to eschew these exceptions like Rape and Incest or Life of the Mother and toss the Pill and IVF overboard, no, we are not going to make any progress in advancing the pro-life agenda. Its impossible to craft a rational protection of life which doesn't protect all life.

There is no moral difference between supporting a "Life of the Mother" exception, and supporting "Abortion on Demand". You are still staking out a position in favor of legalized murder or some subset of the human race.

102 posted on 07/26/2004 9:42:53 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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