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To: foutsc

Let’s return to your basic contention: “If they can do it to Muslims they can do it to you.”

Do WHAT???

Let’s put me in the same place as Rifqa’s dad.

Let’s suppose my daughter goes to the public school and decides to convert to Islam. Or Scientology.

Now that’s not going to happen, but let’s suppose it does.

First of all, she’s not going to leave my household, because any daughter of mine knows her parents love her.

But let’s say, against all odds, that she decides to go to Florida and immerse herself in Islam (or Scientology, or whatever), against my wishes, and furthermore decides to lie and maintain that she fears for her life, as an excuse not to have to return.

Note that we’re assuming my daughter is a liar. That’s also what you’re assuming about Rifqa, while simultaneously assuming her parents are as pure as the driven snow.

Even though a more rational assumption would probably be that she’s telling the truth.

But let’s make those assumptions.

Would I be okay with a judge ruling that my daughter, given her testimony and fears, should not be forced against her will to return to my home?

Yes, I would.

Nor would I feel that the government had particularly “done” anything to me. I might feel that Islam, or Scientology, had done something to me. I might feel that my daughter had done something to me. But I wouldn’t feel the government had.

Again, we’re NOT talking about the government forcibly removing a child from her parents’ home. We’re talking about the government NOT forcibly intervening to remove a child from where she is, using police force, and place her where she is not.

In fact, I don’t really quite see how you can argue FOR forcible intervention by the government, while simultaneously maintaining that you’re AGAINST and IN FEAR OF it.


54 posted on 08/24/2009 3:45:57 PM PDT by john in springfield (One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe such things.No ordinary man could be such a fool.)
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To: john in springfield
The government intervention is in contravening the authority of the father, which we've already stipulated is correct if child abuse is established or even reasonably suspected.

I do see your larger point, which is if a child runs away and lies to manipulate the law against you, you blame the child, not the law. OK, that makes sense.

I am not saying this girl is lying. She could still believe her life is in danger when in fact it is not. These two things are not contradictory. If you point an unloaded gun at me that I think is loaded, I could feel my life is in danger even though it is not.

At this point, if child abuse is alleged, all else is moot anyway.

My larger point is that you must treat law abiding citizens from suspect ethnic or religious groups just as you would anyone else. "Because they're Muslim" is not an excuse, regardless how sick some Muslims have acted in this country. That is the system we have.

57 posted on 08/24/2009 4:10:44 PM PDT by foutsc (Nietzsche is Dead)
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