Posted on 05/11/2011 9:42:03 AM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
It is by two companies at lest - JF is one if I recall. However government construction funding somewhat blurred the distinction.
They always seem to be working on the London subways and it goes back decades to our first visit. It is producing some results - the new Westminster station is really nice.
It actually rather endeared me to the London system in contrast to the Paris system into which huge amounts of government money obviously have been dropped.
Yep, that's back when the systems made economic sense. The reason the recent systems are all government run is the liberals are imposing systems that make no economic sense.
I pay for fast track so I can take the carpool lanes and not have to even drive with the masses on the fwy. Is that bad?
More like he was addressing people who like getting told what to think. People who don't like getting told what they are supposed to think may take offense.
I wasn't much of a fan of public transportation, but when people started to talk like owning and driving an SUV was a natural right and assuming that all conservatives think and should think that way, it make me a little friendier to public transit.
“What I object to are the systems that can’t pay for themselves and rely on heavy taxpayer subsidies to get by.”
Oh. Like most public transit?
So by your own definition he told you want to think. You didn’t care before he told you that you didn’t like it. Then you decided to like it because he told you not to like it. So by trying to go against someone telling you what you like, you allowed someone to change your opinion of it.
Which essentially defeats your own purpose and disproves the fact that you can’t be told what to think. Its just that someone needs to tell you the opposite of what they want you to think, and then you will think exactly what they want you to think.
Cheers!
But when somebody tries to push people along in a herd by using buzzwords, there's bound to be some opposition. Maybe that's because people who try that "bandwagon" appeal resort to it because they don't have good arguments.
I wouldn't change my mind easily about something I'd seriously reasoned out: if you've thought something through, you know why you believe as you do. But when somebody tries to tell me that everybody who counts thinks in a certain way, I'm not going to fall for it.
Maybe that's just a reaction against what they say and what they assume or maybe I've been prompted to finally thought it out for myself. When it comes to me you're probably not the best judge of which it is, anymore than I would be in your case.
But this is all getting way too "meta." When most of one's transportation is by car, one assumes that's all there is. But when you think about it, you may find that alternative means of transportation also have their uses and shouldn't be maligned or dismissed.
Yes. :-))
Ok I’ll concede the point.
But putting all that on the side for a moment, consider this.
Public transportation is not only a symbol of collectivism, but its collectivism incarnate.
Apart from the whether or not most conservatives are opposed to it, and apart from whether or not you are opposed to it, I can certainly understand why most conservatives and libertarians should be opposed to it.
You give up freedom of movement and surrender your independence to a large, dirty, slow-moving machine and you are inevitably thrown in with the unwashed masses, many of who are at the lower rung of the economic ladder. And many at the lower rung of the economic ladder are there for a reason.
Not only do I not like public transportation, I think anybody who does doesn’t get what’s inherently wrong with it on a basic level.
Not unlike roads and streets. Perhaps we should privatize them.
You give up freedom of movement and surrender your independence to a large, dirty, slow-moving machine and you are inevitably thrown in with the unwashed masses, many of who are at the lower rung of the economic ladder.
"Unwashed masses?" Scratch a libertarian and you find an elitist?
Not only do I not like public transportation, I think anybody who does doesn’t get what’s inherently wrong with it on a basic level.
"What's wrong with public transportation" in the sense of "why I don't like it" or in the sense of "why it shouldn't exist?"
As populations get larger, and roads get more crowded, and commuter and traffic jam times longer public transportation starts to make more sense. Even if you hate it, you might consider that taking all those people off the roads leaves more room for you and your car or ridiculous SUV.
Me: “Public transportation is not only a symbol of collectivism, but its collectivism incarnate.”
You: “Not unlike roads and streets. Perhaps we should privatize them.”
My response: Good point. We should privatize them. Keep the good ideas coming!
Me: “You give up freedom of movement and surrender your independence to a large, dirty, slow-moving machine and you are inevitably thrown in with the unwashed masses, many of who are at the lower rung of the economic ladder.
You: “ ‘Unwashed masses?’ Scratch a libertarian and you find an elitist?”
My response: I don’t know about all libertarians, but in the way that you probably mean, and pertaining to me, yes, I probably am an elitist. If by elitist you mean that I want to differentiate myself from the average and below average, then by all means, I’m an “elitist”.
Me: “Not only do I not like public transportation, I think anybody who does doesn’t get what’s inherently wrong with it on a basic level.”
You: “ ‘What’s wrong with public transportation’ in the sense of ‘why I don’t like it’ or in the sense of ‘why it shouldn’t exist?’ “
My response: Both.
You: “As populations get larger, and roads get more crowded, and commuter and traffic jam times longer public transportation starts to make more sense. Even if you hate it, you might consider that taking all those people off the roads leaves more room for you and your car or ridiculous SUV.”
My response: Another great point on your part! Now let’s see, how can we get the majority of the below average people in society to use public transportation? Wait a minute, maybe they will self-select! Wait a minute, maybe the below-average are *already* self-selecting public transit.
Ducky!
Nothing to do with politics. A person’s perception of public transportation has everything to do with residence, and residence during upbringing.
Conservatives brought up in New York city are likely to value public transportation. The automobile is a very clumsy, expensive and inefficient way to navigate the city.
A conservative from a rural area, where public transportation would be clumsy, expensive, and inefficient is going to have the opposite view.
False. There are several. Boulder Colorado and Rochester NY to name a couple.
However, those who complain that public transit isn’t profitable often miss that point that roadways aren’t profitable either. In many places such as NYC, it’s cheaper to fund MTA than it would be to build the necessary roads to handle the traffic if everyone were to drive, even if it were possible to do so.
Then you'd have to level the playing field. Make drivers pay for the full cost of the roads by raising the gasoline tax, a lot. As it is, taxes from all sources find their way into building and maintaining roads. If the full price of roadways were shifted solely to those who use them, you'd be surprised at just how much public transportation makes sense.
The problem is that everyone bitches about 'their' money being spend on public transportation, without a thought to all the money spend on roadways that comes from a variety of sources that have nothing to do with use. It's a cognitive disconnection that most people don't even realize they have.
Houston is a very poor example of public transportation though. Houston is primarily served by bus, and the problem with busses is that they have to operate on the roads. Public transportation works best when it takes people off the roads. The subway system in NYC makes NYC possible. The city could not exist if everyone had to use the roadways.
Assuming that you’re name is indicative of your place of residence, explain to me how Manhattan could even exist without public transportation? It can’t.
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