Tips are not optional, they are how waiters get paid in America

The Manchester Guardian ^ | February 1, 2013 | Chelsea Welch, former waitress

[forbushalltheway]

Well, let’s see, Wendy’s, Burger king and all of those rest, charge less,have the same liability but pay more to their employees and they pay low. So where is that big price difference if it isn’t given to the workers!!!!

[rlmorel]

It was referenced in other places, that it was a clergywoman. Here are the two involved:

This is Alois Bell, someone who characterizes herself as a Pastor. If she is, she isn't a very good one. She may have had a "bad day", but her actions reflect poorly on clergy, and give ammunition to those who want to discredit Christianity.

This is Chelsea Welch, someone who characterizes herself as waitstaff. If she is, she isn't a very good one. She may have had a "bad day", but her actions reflect poorly on waitstaff, and give ammunition to those who want to discredit those who serve for a living.

I maintain that it is this turkey of a waitress who committed the key error. She was in her professional setting when it happened, it wasn't even her customer, but she still felt compelled to make hay out of it by posting stupid crap on the Internet.

As I opined to another poster, it is the one in the professional setting who has to adhere to employer's guidelines. If the positions had been reversed, say the "Pastor" had been performing church services and was rude to the waitress above in her role as a parishioner, the shoe would most definitely have been on the other foot, and I would have supported any efforts she made to have the "Pastor" disciplined or dealt with in some fashion. But that wasn't the way it went down.

[nobamanomore]

I give a good tip, if the wait staff does a good job, a great tip if they are exceptional. That said, the thought always comes up, that I just paid $189 for a meal for two people and the owner can’t afford to pay his good help a decent wage???

Does this make any sense to anyone else? Is it our fault (the customers) that they are underpaid?

[rlmorel]

Just curious...what do you define as “a decent wage”?

[BluH2o]

This is Alois Bell, someone who characterizes herself as a Pastor.

Just another Reverend Al Sharpton type. Mail order reverend credentials.

[rlmorel]

I knew a guy when I was in the Navy back in the Seventies...he was 19, had a document that said he was a preacher. He was from Mississippi, skinny as a rail, lip full of snuff, and a hugely funny and engaging personality.

He may have had a preacher license of some kind, but he wasn’t a man of God! He was one of the funniest, most hilariously morally corrupt people I knew (at least when it came to drinking, sex and swearing) but he wasn’t ill natured and wouldn’t hurt anyone physically or emotionally.

Every time I hear about someone who claims they are clergy of some kind, I have to take it with a grain of salt...

[SkyDancer]

I have no problem with that. I tip good when the waitperson is attentive to our table. I understand their position and they’re between a rock and a hard place. Low hours, bully bosses making them hustle to the point of exhaustion in some places. And again, I always tip in cash.

[nobamanomore]

I won’t be drawn into that one! My argument is why do customers have to pay their wages? Why is it customary for their employer, who benefits from their good service by retaining customers, to not pay them?

[SkyDancer]

PS - I don’t tip the owner if he or she is working tables. Then too tip jars ... they’re out there for just about everything. Next you’ll see a tip jar on the bulkhead of a airplane when you leave. “DELTA Does Good - Leave A Tip For The Crew”

[Lazamataz]

Does this make any sense to anyone else? Is it our fault (the customers) that they are underpaid?

Mr Pink! I remember this discussion. (Warning. Harse Language.)

[Cicero]

That’s why I don’t eat out very often. I just can’t afford to. As for the prices, who knows? Rent, taxes, wages for the workers and chefs, and relatively short hours when they really do good business.

[EDINVA]

Let me just guess: you’ve never run a business, much less a restaurant, right?

You don’t know about overhead. How about renting the property and paying its utilities - heating/cooling, electricity, sewer and water, trash removal; equipment, furnishings, and usually paying a professional to design the kitchen AND dining rooms), insurance, advertising, promotion, withholding taxes and a bookkeeper to track expenses, loan repayments with interest in most cases. If it snows, someone is paid to shovel the walkway or plow the parking lot. “All that money” is a very marginal profit.

And in the restaurant (or any hospitality industry field), an empty table (or hotel room or airline seat) once the shift is over (or the night passes or the flight takes off) is never filled. It’s a loss that can’t be compensated.

So, if those on this board who don’t want to tip had their way, American restaurateurs would do as the Japanese or Europeans do and include the cost for staff, including wait staff, in the bill. The $20 dinner you have now would cost $35. But you wouldn’t have to tip the waiter/waitress.

[rlmorel]

Hahahaha! Very good, I don't blame you a bit for not putting your foot in that bear trap...it is enough for me that you can see I laid it, and didn't even spread dirt or leaves over it...:)

To use your example, though, if someone is waiting tables at a restaurant where the bill might be $189 for two people, how long would the line of prospective waitstaff be to work at that restaurant?

I'll answer it...I will bet dollars-to-donughts that it is going to be long indeed, even if the guaranteed wage is very, very low.

I will also bet that the establishment in question is going to be EXTREMELY picky about who they hire, and that the person who is hired is ecstatic that they got the job, regardless of the base wage. It isn't too hard to figure out why.

If you work at Applebees, you might wait a lot more tables, but your customers are going to spend $30-$50 on average, and are likely going to be somewhat satisfied with service, even if the waitstaff cannot explain in detail how the chef is going to prepare the food, exactly what ingredients are in it, and what wine goes best with it. And even that from a waiter who has all the people skills of a cast iron stanchion.

At a restaurant where the bill is going to be $189 for two people, the customers fully expect all the above, and more. They demand a knowledgeable waitstaff, food prepared just so, and a host of details attended to and delivered by professional waitstaff who shouldn't have an attitude, because they expect demanding customers who have a right to be demanding and expect excellence. And they also understand they must sell not only themselves, but the atmosphere AND the restaurant.

And they fully understand that as a valuable waitstaff, they can bring clientele to their restaurant who may even request them by name, and will amply reward them.

The point I make is, there are people who would club each other over the head to get those jobs, while the Applebee jobs...well, not so much. But if someone is supporting a family, THEY are going to fight for that Applebees job, and when they get it, are going to work hard to make money on tips, and generate compliments from satisfied customers to the management, who is certain to know who is fulfilling the expectations of the customers, and who isn't.

Let's face it, EVERY employee is going to have a customer who is going to dump on them and even complain to the management, even the BEST waitstaff. And management usually knows that and takes it into account, if they are any good.

Bottom line, those jobs are made for people who want to get ahead in the field and make it a profession (yes, they do exist)and they have to not only have the technical and organizational skills to do so, but they MUST possess the people skills to carry it off and sell themselves as well.

[2ndDivisionVet]

The pastor has a First Amendment right to say, write or do whatever she pleases as long as it isn't defamatory or traitorous. She was expressing her opinion on the restaurant's policy of tacking on a tip, probably not in the most tactful way. The real problem here is an employee of the restaurant putting that check on the Internet. That she had to run to the furthest-left major newspaper in the world to complain about her termination tells me volumes.

[sarasmom]

You are beyond ignorant of the restaurant industry.

While their is nothing wrong with working at places like McDonalds, and there are even career paths in doing so, it has little to do with appropriately tipping your server at a full service restaurant in the USA.
Other countries have different expectations of what is appropriate and expected.

If you dislike tipping servers, don't frequent restaurants where it is considered normal and expected.
Everyone is happier that way, possibly even yourself!
Serving is a “real job”, and typically nets much more than any full time minimum wage position.
Even factoring in the occasional obnoxious customers such as yourself.

[EagleInGA]

The pastor has a First Amendment right to say, write or do whatever she pleases as long as it isn't defamatory or traitorous.

The pastor has accountability to God. This is a terrible witness, which is really supposed to be priority number one.

The real problem here is an employee of the restaurant putting that check on the Internet. That she had to run to the furthest-left major newspaper in the world to complain about her termination tells me volumes.

Excuse me but the same first amendment rights that protect the so-called pastor also protect the waitress. Or are you now claiming a right to privacy on restaurant checks?

Whether or not the waitress is a liberal is besides the point. I believe you'd find the pastor is as well. I have followed many of your posts before and often find myself lock-step in agreement. I do respect you opinion, but in this instance I think you are dead wrong.

What this pastor did was ignorant, especially given her expected role as a church leader. And rather then recognizing her rude behavior she doubles down and insists someone be fired. She is a church Leader for crying out loud. She represents Jesus Christ our Lord, you know the man who suffered and died for our sins. She looks petty and cheap and she has earned all the embarrassment and scorn coming her way.

[Revolting cat!]

The pastor has a First Amendment right to say, write or do whatever she pleases as long as it isn't defamatory or traitorous.

You'll be surprised to hear it, I suspect, but restaurant customers in Communist countries or those under military dictatorships didn't need no stinking First Amendment to scribble on restaurant checks. I have an impression that most people who write about "First Amendment rights" have no idea what it is and what it refers to, but I know for certain that it has nothing to do with restaurant checks and receipts.

[EagleInGA]

As I opined to another poster, it is the one in the professional setting who has to adhere to employer's guidelines. If the positions had been reversed, say the "Pastor" had been performing church services and was rude to the waitress above in her role as a parishioner, the shoe would most definitely have been on the other foot, and I would have supported any efforts she made to have the "Pastor" disciplined or dealt with in some fashion.

You know I could really care less about the waitress. Whether or not she should have been fired is between her and Applebees. Your comments regarding professionalism are dead on, but why this made FreeRepublic is beyond me.

Where we disagree is on the actions of the Pastor. When you are a leader in a church you are the face of God. It is not a job that you show up for on Sunday. Her witness is TERRIBLE and likely to add fuel to those who believe Christians are a bunch of hypocrites.

So my point is this: on one hand we have a kid (young adult) who acts like a dope and gets fired (real shocker).

On the other hand we have someone who is supposed to be a leader in the church who makes an absolute fool of herself over an Applebee policy, and in doing so gives a very poor witness to the world. It is my opinion that this woman has earned all the embarrassment and scorn coming her way.

As for the people trying to make this some kind of liberal waitress thing, you have got to be kidding me.

[2ndDivisionVet]

Yeah, I know nothing about communism, despite being an area expert on the DPRK (North Korea) and an intelligence analyst dealing with the Soviets, East Germans, etc. Go on, I’m all ears...

[Revolting cat!]

I pay my respects, yet we’re not talking about Communism, but about the alleged freedom or lack thereof to scribble nonsense on restaurant checks and how it is supposedly guaranteed by our Perfect Constitution.