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To: Fred Nerks; Ladysforest

We don’t know if the birth certificate was amended. We do know that the death certificate is amended. When the researcher spoke with Virginia’s mom she was told that the BC had Virginia’s name on it; they didn’t do an amendment. The most likely thing is that the coroner didn’t have the BC to look at and put a female version of the father’s name on the death certificate, and when they were processing it and had to match it up with the BC they found the discrepancy between the names and corrected the death certificate.

If they did amend the name on the BC it would have been done just like the amendment on the death certificate - with a line drawn through the incorrect entry and a notation of the correct information. The COLB would also have noted that correction. Since it didn’t, and since Virginia’s mom said the BC was under Virginia’s name, it seems like it was just the death certificate that was screwed up and amended. There was no Sunahara birth reported in the newspapers in either July or August - not that the announcement would have had the child’s name anyway.

And even a new BC is always given the same BC# as the original had - except when the new BC is created at the request of law enforcement.

The birth indices have cases where there are 2 listings for what is obviously just one individual - one listing with the middle name spelled out and another with just an initial, for instance. The death index does not list both Tomiyo and Virginia under the Sunahara name, so the printouts aren’t making separate entries to show the correct and incorrect versions. These are presumably 2 distinct records made for the same person - with different BC#’s. To get “duplicate” there would presumably have to be a record where the identical numbers were used with the identical name. The system would have to allow such a thing to accommodate new BC’s created for gender reassignment - which would have the same name and BC#. But only one is supposed to be valid at a time. And that issue is supposed to be confidential so that nothing would seem different in public documents such as a birth index.

I was told that there are other instances where “Duplicate” shows up. Maybe it’s a flaw in their system that messes up gender reassignment confidentiality, or maybe they have a manual way for workers to mark the error of a duplicate record - but that shouldn’t end up deleting the original record. Seems like there should be a Mae Obado and a (duplicate) Mae Obado in that case.

I wonder what would happen if a person requested birth index data for Mae Obado. Their birth index has no Mae Obado listed, so would they give index data for her? If they did it would indicate that their computer records are different than their computer printout.


311 posted on 06/25/2013 4:32:05 AM PDT by butterdezillion (,)
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To: butterdezillion

I think Mrs. Sunahara said that at the time of Virginia’s death they had not settled on a name. When they had, they contacted the DOH, which occurred prior to the BC being generated. So, the death certificate, which had to be generated within three days, had Tomiyo - but the original BC had Virigina as a result of the Sunaharas contacting the DOH once they had decided on a name.

As to a birth announcement - I do not recall if within the two month batch of newspaper copies I have, ANY children who died within a day or so of birth had a birth announcement as well as a death notice. I never looked for that sort of thing aside from Virginias.


312 posted on 06/25/2013 7:17:32 AM PDT by Ladysforest
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To: butterdezillion
...I wonder what would happen if a person requested birth index data for Mae Obado. Their birth index has no Mae Obado listed, so would they give index data for her? If they did it would indicate that their computer records are different than their computer printout.

The way I see it, there never was a MAE OBADO. There was only ever a duplicate entry that was then annulled by the ambiguous MAE and that got rid of an entry they didn't want you to see.

You can't have TWO Barack Hussein Obama 11 showing up on an alphabatical listing, one the child born in January and the other entry with the same name that took the place of Virginia's entry. And btw, there must have been a BC for Virginia, because she has a death certificate. I think you have to be born before you can die?

319 posted on 06/25/2013 2:29:34 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
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To: butterdezillion
...but that shouldn’t end up deleting the original record. Seems like there should be a Mae Obado and a (duplicate) Mae Obado in that case.

I think Mae Obado is a mean absolute error entry for 10611. What would be interesting would be a print-out of births for 1961 in order of certificate numbers...

324 posted on 06/25/2013 3:21:15 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
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To: butterdezillion
...I wonder what would happen if a person requested birth index data for Mae Obado. Their birth index has no Mae Obado listed, so would they give index data for her?

I think we know the answer to that one. OBADO is a duplicate Mean Absolute Error. My guess/gut feeling is that entry is number 10611. The name we are interested in on that list belongs to the child whose father was the kenyan student and the mother was Ann/Anna Obama. The birth date is sometime in January.

It's just going to take a while to sink in. Without OBADO DUPLICATE MAE there might have been two names the same on that alphabetical list.

345 posted on 06/25/2013 5:40:36 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
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To: butterdezillion; Ladysforest
...There was no Sunahara birth reported in the newspapers in either July or August - not that the announcement would have had the child’s name anyway.

A death announcement for the girl, under the name of her father, Tomio Sunahara, appeared in the Honolulu Advertiser on Aug. 8, 1961, and in the Honolulu Star-Bulletin on Aug. 14, 1961.

Just the death announcement with the information that she lived for ONE DAY.

347 posted on 06/25/2013 6:17:06 PM PDT by Fred Nerks
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