Posted on 07/22/2013 3:56:47 PM PDT by grumpa
Fear not to be challenged an changed.
Are you saying all the Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled also? (which would mean there’s nothing left to happen?)
Consistency is the Hobgoblin of little minds. God did not produce a scientific text book explaining all things but by the Holy Spirit wrote what he wanted to write and communicated himself in the way that he wanted to communicate himself. Faith accepts mystery and God’s sovereign right to keep secrets.
“The intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate”. He allows room for man to believe or disbelieve. Faith is the key to the “puzzle”.
Thank you for the post, as it is always helpful to revisit assumptions.
The preterist view has some points to recommend it, but I must demur.
Considering Luke 21, the Lord spoke of a process extending over a great period of time: “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.” The great signs from heaven and all that did not all occur within the lifespan of the apostles.
More importantly, Luke 21:24: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” The restoration of the Jews to Israel in 1948 and their recovery of Jerusalem in 1967 are current prophetic lynchpins in the understanding of the end times.
Yes, it is discouraging to watch the Harold Campings of the world, but that does not detract from the clarity of Christ’s warnings - he wanted us to be alert, working and watching. He starts the Olivet discourse with a strong warning not to be deceived.
We are approaching a great deception (Obama is not the anti-Christ, but a pathetic precursor and type of deceiver). The coming man of sin will be deception on steroids, undergirded by demonic spiritual power.
We should lift up our heads; our redemption draws nigh.
(But it will take a few years, methinks)
Shalom
“Are you saying all the Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled also? (which would mean there’s nothing left to happen?)”
It;s all been fulfilled. If not, then Christ is a false prophet and cannot be believed about anything else He said.
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end...Daniel 12:4
And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand. Revelation 22:10
Everything predicted to occur at “the time of the end” was about to occur in John’s lifetime. No less than the risen Christ Himself told him to write this.
The question is, will you believe it?
“Considering Luke 21, the Lord spoke of a process extending over a great period of time: “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.” The great signs from heaven and all that did not all occur within the lifespan of the apostles.”
Read Josephus, Eusebius, Tacitus, and Tertullian. They would beg to differ.
“In my book, CHRISTIAN HOPE through FULFILLED PROPHECY, I explain...”
It’s just bad form to put the sales pitch so early in the article. Better to whet the suckers’ appetites, and then, just when they are hooked and want to read more, you hit them with the pitch at the end. This guy’s an amateur.
Ah, so everything has already happened? Christ is reigning physically on earth from his throne in New Jerusalem, death and hell have been thrown into the lake of fire along with Satan and all his followers, and the lions are playing pattycake with the lambs and little children out in the fields? Or maybe not “quite” everything has already happened?
I wanna be saved, I’ll have to buy the book.
“And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, “
2 Peter 3:4-11
“Ah, so everything has already happened? Christ is reigning physically on earth from his throne in New Jerusalem, death and hell have been thrown into the lake of fire along with Satan and all his followers, and the lions are playing pattycake with the lambs and little children out in the fields? Or maybe not “quite” everything has already happened?”
Eschatological literalism is killing the Christian church by making it a laughingstock. Your post is a perfect example of such misinformed literalism.
Shalom
It's later then you think, check this out...
Daniel 7:8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.
Little horn / short guy
Three were uprooted, Muammar Gaddafi, Hosni Mubarak and Saddam Hussein and uprooted is the perfect word as these three had nearly 100 years of combined rule in the M.E. No small feat. So who is this little horn that came up among them? Glad you asked...
Daniel 9:24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the kodesh. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.
The “Seventy ‘sevens’ are about two time periods only, the Anointed One, the ruler, Messiah and the Anti-Messiah only. No wandering over to 70 C.E.
Anyway, seven sevens... Restore Jerusalem.
History of Jerusalem
On January 23, 1950, the Knesset passed a resolution that stated Jerusalem was the capital of Israel It is also the largest city in the country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Jerusalem
Now seven sevens (weeks) aka 49 years.
GOTCHA! The Big One That Didn't Get Away
Robotic telescope captures visible light from a powerful gamma-ray burst
This particular burst had the power of nearly ten million billion suns, and the light grew so bright that anyone gazing at the night sky could have seen it using only a pair of binoculars. The chances were slim, however, that someone would be looking at that exact point in the sky at 4:47 a.m. EST, on Jan. 23. But thanks to the use of two satellites, a unique ground-based telescope, and the Internet, scientists around the world were able to pinpoint the location of the burst, and to monitor it from start to finish.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/1999/ast27jan99_1/
Jan. 23, 1950 to Jan. 23, 1999
So who stepped up to the plate at this time?
Friday, January 22, 1999 Published at 23:19 GMT
World: Middle East King Hussein drops heir
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/260875.stm
Monday, January 25, 1999 Published at 23:23 GMT
World: Middle East Hussein names son as heir
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/262604.stm
Daniel 8:23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people…
Sunday, February 7, 1999 Published at 15:10 GMT
World: Middle East
Abdullah sworn in
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/274302.stm
The stern faced king stands up!
As always there's Lots more... Google Amman seven mountains to start...
Shalom Aleichem
“Eschatological literalism is killing the Christian church by making it a laughingstock. Your post is a perfect example of such misinformed literalism.”
Your post is a perfect example of the fundamental flaw of preterism. You claim every prophecy of the end times is fulfilled, but then if you scratch the surface of that statement, it turns out that it is only fulfilled if the terms of that fulfillment are already defined according to the preterist perspective. It’s easy to declare yourself the winner if you have rewritten the rules of the game.
Preterism is not an eschatology, but a tautology. There is no set of rules that, when consistently applied to prophecy, would reliably yield a preterist interpretation. Instead, the preterists start with a defined interpretation of scripture, and then apply whatever rules they feel like in order to make scripture fit their goal.
Now, if what I say isn’t the case, then you should be able to provide me with the preterist standard for determining which parts of prophecy are to be taken literally, versus which parts we shall take as symbolic, figurative, etc.
I’m not going to post dozens of verses here just to argue with someone so willfully ignorant. There is more than enough research available, starting with authors like Josephus and Eusebius to educate yourself. Try reading something other than all the false prophets, like Harold Camping and his ilk, before you deign to pass judgment on something you clearly don’t understand.
“I’m not going to post dozens of verses here just to argue with someone so willfully ignorant.”
I didn’t ask for any verses, or appeals to authority, I asked for your preterist method, the hermeneutic rules that you use to determine one simple thing. How do you know if any particular verse is to be taken literally or not, in the context of prophecy?
Can you produce such a rule? Or does my statement that preterism has no such standard for exegesis stand?
they see only in the flesh, and not the spirit,
these are the ones that when the bridegroom comes, they wake up with the shout, but don’t have any oil in the lamps,
“I asked for your preterist method...”
Start by taking verses like these literally:
“Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” Matthew 16:28
If Jesus didn’t fulfill this promise, then He is not who He claimed to be and your faith in Him is in vain.
In whose eyes?
“Start by taking verses like these literally:”
According to what standard? What is your preterist method that can be applied to any verse and tell me whether or not to take it literally?
Unless you can produce it, preterism is nothing but confirmation bias. The verses you take literally are simply the ones that, when taken literally, support your preconceived beliefs.
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