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What If America Had Lost the Revolutionary War? A Fourth of July thought experiment
The Atlantic ^
| July 4, 2014
| Uri Friedman, senior associate editor
Posted on 07/05/2014 6:23:56 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
We did lose the Revolutionary War.
It’s just that we didn’t completely surrender until 2008.
2
posted on
07/05/2014 6:26:17 PM PDT
by
Maceman
To: 2ndDivisionVet
Should have know Harry Turtledove would be involved somewhere. The Road Not taken completely screwed my sci fi think meat.
The Road Not Taken
3
posted on
07/05/2014 6:30:28 PM PDT
by
cripplecreek
(Remember the River Raisin.)
To: Maceman
Why, by this point we might be misruled by a Third World dictator.
Uh wait...
4
posted on
07/05/2014 6:31:26 PM PDT
by
Argus
To: 2ndDivisionVet
5
posted on
07/05/2014 6:32:43 PM PDT
by
skeeter
To: skeeter
We’d be celebrating Canada day (The day we cried “Uncle”)
6
posted on
07/05/2014 6:33:35 PM PDT
by
cripplecreek
(Remember the River Raisin.)
To: Maceman
“Its just that we didnt completely surrender until 2008.”
____________________________________________________________
Yes, that year pretty much started the ending of America as I knew it. The reelection of Obozo confirmed my fears.
7
posted on
07/05/2014 6:36:33 PM PDT
by
AlexW
To: 2ndDivisionVet
This is sort of a stupid article, but the subject has come up many times before. So the revolutionary army gets defeated by the British, and Washington, Jefferson, Adams, etal get hanged. Britain keeps its colony and exacts more onerous taxes or something. At some point there would be another revolution until the country was independent. The difference in the way Americans look at things and the Brits look at things would demand another revolt.
Would everything still be the same as far as the constitution and what not? Maybe not. But we'd still have an independent country.
8
posted on
07/05/2014 6:40:04 PM PDT
by
driftless2
(For long term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
To: 2ndDivisionVet
Alternative history ping.
9
posted on
07/05/2014 6:45:03 PM PDT
by
Chainmail
(A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
To: 2ndDivisionVet
We’d probably have less blacks. England was a lot more serious against the slave trade than the US was, even though both countries banned the transatlantic slave trade at about the same time (around 1807).
10
posted on
07/05/2014 6:46:50 PM PDT
by
MUDDOG
To: 2ndDivisionVet
Not worth the kind of actioners Turtledove tends to write. The US would have remained, along with Canada, part of Mother England. English sovereigns defeated all kinds of armed revolts, and things trundled along.
11
posted on
07/05/2014 6:47:50 PM PDT
by
Zhang Fei
(Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
To: All
We would have tried again and again until victorious.
We may not have had the collective genius of our actual Founding Fathers, we may have had a victorious General who did accept the American Crown and may have had sons.
12
posted on
07/05/2014 6:48:13 PM PDT
by
Reaganez
To: 2ndDivisionVet
I've wondered what it would be like if England had paid more attention to its North American colonies and integrated them into the motherland more. Imagine if in the early 1700s the English had started putting noble families in charge of areas so you would have Earls of Massachusetts and Virginia. Maybe Georgia would have only gotten a baron in charge. Then what if various of our Founding Fathers had been elected to Parliament. "No taxation even with representation" just doesn't have the bite the original did.
13
posted on
07/05/2014 6:58:36 PM PDT
by
KarlInOhio
(The IRS: either criminally irresponsible in backup procedures or criminally responsible of coverup.)
To: KarlInOhio
14
posted on
07/05/2014 7:04:36 PM PDT
by
MUDDOG
To: 2ndDivisionVet
One thing is clear. We’re long overdue for another one.
To: 2ndDivisionVet
There is also a book about this subject by Robert Sobel in 1971 called “For Want of a Nail” where the American Revolution was lost and a lot of the Founding Fathers escaped to the Texas/Mexico area and started the “United States of Mexico” which is an analogy of the current United States with a heavier Latino component. I also liked the Richard Dreyfuss/Harry Turtledove work of the “Two Georges” too.
16
posted on
07/05/2014 7:05:57 PM PDT
by
Nowhere Man
(Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
To: 2ndDivisionVet
Around 15 years ago, I was doing some research concerning Revolutionary War Veterans and their claims for pensions.
In their claims they would list all of the battles they participated in. Of course there were the ones everyone knows but a large number of the vets had listed “The Florida Campaign”. I mean maybe a third of them.
I have never heard of it yet it must have been a large operation.
17
posted on
07/05/2014 7:15:07 PM PDT
by
yarddog
(Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
To: KarlInOhio
The American Secession* was not directly about taxation, but about the Colonial desire for expansion westward. The Colonies expected England to pay for the defense of their territory against counter-attacks by the Indians and the French, and England had enough on its plate in Europe, and refused.
*It was not really a revolution -- see France, Russia, Cuba for real revolutions -- the turning of a society upside down [lower class on top, upper-class destroyed)
18
posted on
07/05/2014 7:16:28 PM PDT
by
expat2
To: expat2
I heard some historian (I forget who) who said that it was more of a counterrevolution. Before the French & Indian War, England treated the North American colonies with a kind of benign neglect because the Caribbean colonies were vastly more profitable. With little or no interference from England democracy developed. Then with the F&I War, England started much more taxes and controls while the colonies wanted to go back to the old ways of running their own business.
19
posted on
07/05/2014 7:21:28 PM PDT
by
KarlInOhio
(The IRS: either criminally irresponsible in backup procedures or criminally responsible of coverup.)
To: 2ndDivisionVet
My Loyalist ancestors would have gotten their lands in PA and NY back...
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