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1 posted on 12/12/2014 5:54:00 PM PST by Enza Ferreri
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To: Enza Ferreri

Very clear thinking and writing.


2 posted on 12/12/2014 6:04:25 PM PST by IChing
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To: Enza Ferreri

If they had tased him, he might be alive.

Now, let’s get rid of the stupid laws against “loosies”.


3 posted on 12/12/2014 6:09:08 PM PST by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Enza Ferreri

I would be deeply troubled if one of my family had been ganged up on and brought down like that, all over a cigarette sale. Yes, he pushed them into high gear when noncompliance equals resistance.


7 posted on 12/12/2014 6:36:01 PM PST by lee martell
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To: Enza Ferreri

Typical of someone with a vowel at the end of their name (and not in la coda nostra) to reflexively support the police. White trash tax glorified collectors strangle black trash all for selling untaxed cigarettes. FTNYPD.


10 posted on 12/12/2014 6:54:35 PM PST by Clemenza (Lurking)
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To: Enza Ferreri
I don't believe this is an example of racism. I do believe it's an example of a citizen being killed over violation of a nonsensical law designed to bleed tax dollars from Americans. I also think this is an example of why I want cops wearing cameras during their interactions with the public.


12 posted on 12/12/2014 6:55:38 PM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: Enza Ferreri

It was not a “tragedy” either.


14 posted on 12/12/2014 7:26:10 PM PST by sagar
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To: Enza Ferreri
12. I'm from Missouri. Show me the cigarettes.

13. [Rodney Lee, manager of the Bay Beauty Supply, where Garner was killed] said he was threatened after the Garner video emerged because it was reported that he called the cops.

"I'm Asian, working in a beauty supply shop and it happened to a black guy so people just assumed I called the police, which I didn't," he said.

Whoops. There goes the "shop owner called the cops" excuse for the cops. Maybe Garner was selling "loosie" packs of beauty shampoo & conditioner. Or wigs. LOL! :)

14. The witness from the park [who was standing next to Pantaleo in the park] told the grand jury the same thing that the guy on the video said:

Garner broke up a fight

15 posted on 12/12/2014 7:44:01 PM PST by kiryandil (making the jests that some FReepers aren't allowed to...)
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To: Enza Ferreri

If you can’t breathe, you can’t say “I can’t breathe”!


20 posted on 12/12/2014 8:15:22 PM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Enza Ferreri
. Police alleged that Orta had slipped a .25-caliber handgun into a teenage accomplice's waistband outside a New York hotel.

So what? Even criminals are entitled to self defense and protected by the second amendment.

21 posted on 12/12/2014 8:17:55 PM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Enza Ferreri
"...manslaughter in the death of Eric Garner? In a word, intent."

Intent is not a requirement for an involuntary manslaughter charge. Which is what occurred.

24 posted on 12/12/2014 8:36:03 PM PST by moehoward
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To: Enza Ferreri
1. There is no doubt that Garner was resisting an arrest for illegally selling untaxed cigarettes. Former New York City Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik put it succinctly: "You cannot resist arrest. If Eric Garner did not resist arrest, the outcome of this case would have been very different," he told Newsmax. "He wouldn't be dead today. "Regardless of what the arrest was for, the officers don't have the ability to say, 'Well, this is a minor arrest, so we're just going to ignore you.'"

This case goes to show everyone that cops can kill people without sanction for violating petty laws.

3. Garner, 43, had history of more than 30 arrests dating back to 1980, on charges including assault and grand larceny.

How many convictions? (How many wrongful arrests?) This report doesn't say. But being arrested for something doesn't prove guilt, and especially so in a jurisdiction where cops profile.

4. At the time of his death, Garner was out on bail after being charged with illegally selling cigarettes, driving without a license, marijuana possession and false impersonation.

On the other hand, how many crimes does someone have to have under their belt to be held away from society?

5. The chokehold that Patrolman Daniel Pantaleo put on Garner was reported to have contributed to his death. But Garner, who was 6-foot-3 and weighed 350 pounds, suffered from a number of health problems, including heart disease, severe asthma, diabetes, obesity, and sleep apnea. Pantaleo's attorney and police union officials argued that Garner's poor health was the main cause of his death.

The "but" (underlined) does not logically belong. Chokeholds were banned, and the cop apparently used one. Police brutality is a worse crime than selling untaxed cigarettes.

6. Garner did not die at the scene of the confrontation. He suffered cardiac arrest in the ambulance taking him to the hospital and was pronounced dead about an hour later.

So? If a citizen fought a police officer and the officer died an hour later, you can be sure the citizen would have been charged in the death.

7. Much has been made of the fact that the use of chokeholds by police is prohibited in New York City. But officers reportedly still use them. Between 2009 and mid-2014, the Civilian Complaint Review Board received 1,128 chokehold allegations.

So, apparently, not enough has been made of this fact, because police are still acting in contravention to policy. Such officers should be sanctioned, from loss of pay to being fired to facing criminal charges.

Patrick Lynch, president of the New York City Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, said: "It was clear that the officer's intention was to do nothing more than take Mr. Garner into custody as instructed, and that he used the takedown technique that he learned in the academy when Mr. Garner refused."

Irrespective of where he learned it, if it was banned, it was banned.

9. The 23-member grand jury included nine non-white jurors.

This fact is meaningless without some indication of the necessary majority. If it was the case of a simple majority, then the blacks are outnumbered and could have unanimously voted to indict without result.

10. In order to find Officer Pantaleo criminally negligent, the grand jury would have had to determine that he knew there was a "substantial risk" that Garner would have died due to the takedown.

Why was the chokehold banned? Why didn't the officer comply with the ban? Did the officer ever learn of cases, or was he ever officially told, of the fact and/or reason of the ban? Which chokehold he nevertheless elected to use on an obviously obese person?

11. Less than a month after Garner's death, Ramsey Orta, who shot the much-viewed videotape of the encounter, was indicted on weapons charges. Police alleged that Orta had slipped a .25-caliber handgun into a teenage accomplice's waistband outside a New York hotel.

This is nothing more than an attack-the-messenger fallacy. Unless the video is being alleged to be fake, what sort of person Orta is has zero bearing on the facts of the Garner case, and one has to wonder what is the agenda of any person who raises this issue.

49 posted on 12/12/2014 11:07:02 PM PST by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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