Posted on 02/04/2015 9:43:28 AM PST by raptor22
I've already shown evidence that GraceG's point about requiring the "spacing out" of vaccines in order to give the immune system "a break" is based on erroneous assumptions. I honestly don't care about the Marine story, as it is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
You're free to do what you want with your body. But if you're not going to vaccinate your kids, you should keep them out of school.
If you think that trying to protect kids from deadly diseases while they're in a taxpayer funded facility using simple, proven, medically and scientifically approved techniques and treatments, then you don't have a friggin' clue what actual tyranny is.
you're not saying hey, let's educate people
For the most part, that ship has sailed. The anti-vaxer community is similar to the Truther community. I've been called all of the same names that you're throwing about by Truthers, who, because I don't believe the WTC was blown up by the government, call me a supporter of tyrants who hasn't "educated himself" about controlled demolition. It's dumb and tiresome. I'm not here to convince you, but other people who might be wondering if there really is something to the autism-vaccine connection, or if they should "space out" their vaccines (there's no evidence for either).
I've presented evidence, backed by the medical community, you've told stories, and castigated me for not believing some unsourced anecdote.
No one is forcing any needle in your arm. But you don't have a right to expose other kids to diseases because you believe in pseudoscience. If you aren't going to vaccinate, your kids can be home schooled. End of story.
Ultimately, this is about the ownership of the children.
Irrelevant; I've not argued for or against spacing.
I honestly don't care about the Marine story, as it is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
It's not irrelevant — a government controlled doctor was giving out the typically mandatory injections and ignored almost in-your-face medical documentation: the red dog-tags hanging from the hand — I did that too, everyone with the red tag does in basic-training/boot-camp.
What you are proposing is… government controlled doctors giving typically mandatory injections. (And honestly, what would be more logical than to line the kids up on the first day of school and run them through… just like basic-training/boot-camp.)
You're free to do what you want with your body. But if you're not going to vaccinate your kids, you should keep them out of school.
I don't have kids.
And they honestly don't look to be in the deck at all, insofar as I can tell.
If I did have kids, I wouldn't want them in schools because they are horrible indoctrination centers; not because of possible [non-]vaccination.
If you think that trying to protect kids from deadly diseases while they're in a taxpayer funded facility using simple, proven, medically and scientifically approved techniques and treatments, then you don't have a friggin' clue what actual tyranny is.
Ah, so if you take your kid with you to court you surrender your right to object; after all the courthouse is a taxpayer funded facility
.
Again you prove that you are not on the side of liberty.
I've presented evidence, backed by the medical community, you've told stories, and castigated me for not believing some unsourced anecdote.
Personal experience isn't an unsourced anecdote.
Again, the only reason I didn't have a reaction is God's good grace. (The Ceclor allergy runs in my family; I'm just glad that the penicillin/amoxicillin never reacted even though they're in the same family.)
No one is forcing any needle in your arm.
And here you are contradicting personal experience; I could not object to the injection the army gave me without medical reason (which I had).
The Marine, my brother, had the same documentation (actually his red-tag may have listed penicillin explicitly) — it was ignored in the assembly line
style medical in his case.
But you don't have a right to expose other kids to diseases because you believe in pseudoscience.
Who's psudeoscience?
My claims have been:
This is exactly true.
Conservatives believe parents own their children or they don’t.
We believe in natural marriage because under natural marriage bonded parents have pre-agreed on the ownership of any procreated children for the safety and best possible arrangement for the children.
OK, well that's what this discussion was about. Sorry you came late to the party, but I'm under no obligation to change to story to something unrelated because you think I should.
What you are proposing is… government controlled doctors giving typically mandatory injections. (And honestly, what would be more logical than to line the kids up on the first day of school and run them through… just like basic-training/boot-camp.)
Not at all. Nice try.
You can get the vaccine from wherever you like, but immunizations for school attendance are perfectly reasonable and necessary. I'm not quite sure why you'd want to adopt the vaccination policies of third world countries. Maybe you're one of those types who blames the resurgence of measles on illegals, but glosses over the fact that they have measles because they're not vaccinated.
I don't have kids.
Well, then you haven't had the brutal pleasure of weeding through all of the bullsh!t that surrounds this issue, one where the anti-vaxer side is dominated by left-wing media personalities. With my two kids, I finally buckled down and asked the doctors and looked at the evidence, and there is no parity between the two. Those who say that vaccines are inherently dangerous are liars, plain and simple.
Ah, so if you take your kid with you to court you surrender your right to object; after all the courthouse is a taxpayer funded facility.
Again you prove that you are not on the side of liberty.
I can't imagine needing to take my kids to court, but do you believe a kid with measles symptoms should be able to walk into a courthouse? If you say no "you are not on the side of liberty." < /sarcasm >
Answer yourself that question and you'll see how stupid the question is.
Personal experience isn't an unsourced anecdote.
Personal experience, yes, you're right. But it's not my experience, it's (supposedly) yours and the other Freepers. I don't know you from Adam, so I have no idea whether you're telling the truth, your story is not evidence in any objective way, and the military stories are not even relevant to the original discussion, which was about "spacing out" vaccines.
I could not object to the injection the army gave me without medical reason (which I had).
You give up certain rights when you go into the military. The recruiter should have told you that. Once again, not a topic I was discussing nor am interested in. I'll let the military figure out their own policy, hopefully informed free of anti-vaxer propaganda.
Which of these is unreasonable?
It's unreasonable because it's inaccurate.
A large dose of thiomersal can be poisonous, but the evidence shows that "mercury levels in blood and urine were uniformly low in all infants studied and, in many cases, too small to measure. There was no observed dose-dependent relationship between the level of thimerosal received through vaccination and the level of mercury in the body."
Mercury Levels in Infants Receiving Routine Immunizations
I'm skeptical of government force as well. That's why I haven't lobbied for it. You are free to keep your kids at home, and knowing your opinion of public schools, I'm not sure why this would be a problem for you.
But a semblance of public safety for the 50 million kids in public schools is reasonable. Maybe if you have kids one day, and you actually take the time to speak to a pediatrician, read a medical journal, and take an honest look at the evidence, you'll see the facts. Outside the US, the pseudoscience you're peddling has life and death consequences:
I wasn't aware that expecting your doctor to actively try to not-kill you was so waived.
Please tell me more about how I can expect the government to trample the Constitution I swore to defend because I waived rights — please include how the document, which constrains the government's actions, can be waived by me.
I'm skeptical of government force as well. That's why I haven't lobbied for it.
You've endorsed it right here on this thread!
Look, you're going to have to find another shoulder to cry on about this Army story. It's irrelevant to the discussion I was having about the 2016 primary and children's vaccinations as a prerequisite for school attendance. I'm sorry if you think the military's vaccination protocols are screwy, but I'm fine to let military brass sort out how they do it.
But as for the two anecdotes about getting shots in basic training, I just don't care. So if you bring it up again I'm going to ignore it.
You've endorsed it right here on this thread!
No, you seem you to be confused about what liberty is. You don't have the right to spread infectious diseases by not taking precautions that your children are well. Do you think you have the right send your kids to school if they have the flu, measles, mumps, whooping cough, or other communicable diseases when there are safe and effective medical treatments to prevent such? Do you think they even let kids in school who have head lice?
If you totally reject medical science and choose not to vaccinate your kids, you can keep them home . You're not going to put other kids at risk because you can't responsibly protect your kids (and others) from diseases, end of story.
You would probably also like to be able to trust the CDC scientists who are deeming the vaccines safe. Fortunately tons of evidence proving the CDC is corrupt is now being reviewed and made public through the CDC Whistleblower William Thompson.
STATEMENT OF WILLIAM W. THOMPSON, Ph.D., REGARDING THE 2004 ARTICLE EXAMINING THE POSSIBILITY OF A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MMR VACCINE AND AUTISM
My name is William Thompson. I am a Senior Scientist with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, where I have worked since 1998.
I regret that my coauthors and I omitted statistically significant information in our 2004 article published in the journal Pediatrics. The omitted data suggested that African American males who received the MMR vaccine before age 36 months were at increased risk for autism. Decisions were made regarding which findings to report after the data were collected, and I believe that the final study protocol was not followed.”
It wasn’t just this one paper, either: Other statements attributed to Dr. Thompson include:
“I have a boss who’s asking me to lie...Higher ups wanted to do certain things and I went along with it. In terms of command, I was 4 out of 5.”
“...the effect [autism] is where you would think it would happen. It is with the kids without other conditions [”isolated autism”]...I’m just looking at this and I’m like ‘Oh my God....I cannot believe we did what we did...but we did [bury the data on these children]...It’s all there...It’s all there. I have handwritten notes.’”
Lots of info on this here too: http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-1164794
You should watch this video, Congressional Hearings put a little sunshine on the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wwDPcNdxJQ
Thank you for sharing that.
You are welcome. Did you see where the rate of Autism has gone up from 1 in 10,000 in 1980 to 1 in 88 in 2013? Something is causing that dramatic increase and the CDC continues to state that vaccinations are safe and have nothing to do with the problem. When asked directly if they have done a study on rates of autism in the vaccinated versus rates of autism in the unvaccinated the answer is NO.
I generally agree about the fact that we should vaccinate children as an additional precaution, however, the fact that the government gives a whining person who may have Ebola whatever they want, I don’t trust they would do much. If some Ebola who whined and got their way went and visited a nursing home and daycare center, that’s another story. And that is the real problem, all it will take is someone whining their way to go out and spread some deadly disease around. And aside from hubris, we aren’t 100 percent immune to every disease out there.
Thimerosol is taken out of vaccines. I have had a lot to blame though with chemical preservatives and what they put into processed foods. The problem with blaming vaccines is the fact that unvaccinated children develop autism, as well as only a small percentage of vaccinated children develop it, and we’re also only recently diagnosing it effectively.
What do you mean by ‘whining’?
If you are going to be reckless, and violate other people’s rights, you are a criminal. Murder is a rights violation that fellow citizens of the U.S., yet plenty of people are too blind in their hatred to call it such, when murderers should be tried and executed for taking away a person’s right to life.
You are aware of the Ebola nurse who whined and got the state governments to give in and give up on Ebola quarantine, right?
My cousins got polio at a pool....so good luck with that.
EVERY. LAST. MEDIA DISCUSSION ABOUT VACCINES demonizes those who find problems with vaccines as they currently are today. Even the vaccine pamphlets describe adverse effects, though most of them say that who knows if the adverse affects right after receiving a vaccine are actually FROM the vaccine. Even you freepers lap it up and think that people who question whether vaccines are safe are anti-science. Nearly every study claiming they are safe or claiming the risks are unbelievably tiny is done by biased sources.
Look, no one in the media is telling you the truth. That is suspicious, isn’t it, FReepers? Not one media report explains to the American people that Tea Party means taxed enough already, let’s get back to a free country as described in our constitution. No, tea party means religious extremism and control by fascists, if you listened to any media.
Same thing here.
Here is the absolute truth about vaccines. They are flawed and some babies will be damaged by them. The damage is neurological and cumulative. This is where I guess: it may be that the neuro-adjuvants within, plus the disease and metals, just do a number on the gut biome and too much gets into the bloodstream. Though that previous sentence was me guessing, the truth will be very similar. The damage might not show up until the child is old (neurodegenerative diseases), or it may affect the child’s brain right then.
The payouts for the few children who have made it through the court system and somehow beat the wealthy attorneys fighting to discredit the families who said their child’s brain injuries were as a result of the vaccination are in the multimillions.
Some children may lose all their original potential because of their vaccinations, and we can’t believe the risk ratios from the government. They are deliberately low.
There is much evidence that there are children with gut bacteria immune systems “just right” enough to handle vaccines well, and others whose biome is compromised and they cannot handle the vaccines. It is proven that even the sniffles in a baby adds to a bad reaction. We all have seen a baby a bit “off” for a day and then the next day realized he was coming down with a virus. None of us knows fully the immune system of our baby the day we take him in for a shot. If he “appears well” that is all we can say.
When I look back at my taking my first baby carefully for all his newborn shots (2, 4, 6 months, against all parental instinct but I blindly trusted the medical system then), he had had a lot of ear “infections” (yes, doctors saw redness and called the inflammation an “infection” which “needed antibiotics”). Every bit of that was part of the correct medical care for an infant. That was 23 years ago. All of that has been disproven and now pediatricians know that is wrong. That antibiotics in babies is wrong. That ear swelling and fluid buildup and pain can all be relived in babies by other means now.
Yes, my baby will never be able to live a normal life. He is smart but has no social skills to cope with ANYTHING. He is very unhappy a lot of the time. He couldn’t do college or drive a car.
I wish to Gd I had not been so blind, used my brain and realized under two is too young for that onslaught of vaccines. I wish he had had measles and mumps etc instead. My being a slave to a medical system who controls the media damaged my child.
And I know so many other people to whom this happened that I don’t believe the government’s calculation of risks. They will do wild gymnastic flips to claim any brain problems after vaccination were coincidental.
And you freepers suck it up and call us anti-science.
Luckily it turns out that she was just a mentally ill nutcase, and not an Ebola victim.
Although if she had been, there would have been negligence on the part of her and the government if she had been allowed to roam around.
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