Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

To: IchBinEinBerliner
Why answer you when it was clear as day in my post #134?

Well first of all, you're jumping back and forth between the 2012 and 2014 cases. In the matter of the 2012 case, it wasn't clear at all. In fact, other than one physician witness, the court jumps to a conclusion through non sequitur:

"Only on the date 27 \ 06 \ 2008, did the specialist Dr. Niglio attest as to how the reported damages to the minor (child) were attributable to the vaccination carried out, this theory was definitively confirmed on the date 25 \ 07 \ 2009 by the specialist Dr. MONTANARI."

Also, if you had read the 2012 decision more closely, you'd have seen:

As for the ascertainment, on the part of the parents, of the actual knowledge of the cause of disability, it should be noted that in none of the medical records examined was the clinical picture established definitely as post-vaccine, in the sense of, caused by inoculation of the vaccine, and that the causal relationship is indicated for the first time only in the medical report on 27 \ 06 \ 2008 of the specialist Dr. Niglio.

Even the court admitted that the medical documents didn't clearly show that the symptoms were exclusively post-vaccine.

So here again, we have a theory that is completely dismantled in all scientific inquiry being used in a questionable court by one questionable physician witness, Dr. Montanari, who's already been confirmed to be an unreliable source by his selling of an autism "cure".

End of story on that one.

As far as the 2014 case, you didn't even mention that this case dealt with the hexavalent vaccine, not MMR. It does appear that the GlaxoSmithKline report was one of the main reasons for the questionable decision. But again, a brief review of this report shows that the court made the same mistake you did earlier by confusing "reported reactions" with causality.

If you had bothered to glance at the GlaxoSmithKline report, you'd see that they're pulling autism reports from a section entitled:

"APPENDIX 4E : Cumulative tabulation of all unlisted events from serious unlisted spontaneous reports and all serious unlisted reactions from clinical trial cases reported since launch"

This means that the list (that runs from page 592 to 645) is listing everything that was reported, no matter how absurd, not things that were confirmed causally.

Hell, the report is actually kind of funny.

If you look on page 614 alone you'll see "Forearm fracture", "joint dislocation", and "skull fracture" as reported side effects to the hexavalent vaccine. Also, my favorite "arthropod bite"!

Do you honestly think that this report is evidence that the hexavalent causes broken bones and spider bites?!

Lastly on the 2014 case, there was considerable backlash from the Italian scientific community, and "the Italian Society of Hygiene, Preventive Medicine and Public Health (Società Italiana di Igiene, Medicina Preventiva e Sanità Pubblica (SItI)); the Italian Federation of Pediatricians (Federazione Italiana Medici Pediatri (FIMP)); the Italian Society of Pediatrics (Società Italiana di Pediatria (SIP)); the Cultural Association of Pediatricians (Associazione Culturale Pediatri (ACP)); and the Italian Federation of Doctors of General Medicine (Federazione Italiana Medici di Medicina Generale (FIMMG)) issued a press release to reiterate that there is no link between hexavalent vaccine and autism, or between autism and the vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella.

So once again, science on one side, courts on the other. Considering the court's decision on the earthquake case, and the evidence that shows they didn't understand the GSK report, case closed on that one as well.

The one I linked was 1271 pgs.

That wasn't a scientific study published in a scientific journal, that was a confidential bridging report send to European pharmaceutical regulatory authorities.

Even the actual scientific studies that you linked to were were around a dozen pages, so for some reason you're under the false assumption that the length of peer-reviewed scientific studies rival long novels. Likewise the GSK report is not a peer-reviewed scientific study, so this is just more evidence that you don't have any experience reading scientific journals.

Whether Banks suffered an autistic spectrum disorder or some other ill effect does not matter to me

Well, here we go. You see that you're arguments have been thoroughly debunked and defeated, so you're changing the goalposts and your arguments. Maybe you shouldn't have wasted all of your time trying to futilely prove an autism link, only to admit that an autism/vaccine link wasn't what you were arguing.

You are opposed to me citing court case about vaccines...

I'm not opposed to it at all. In fact I hope you keep it up, since they're so easily debunked when you try to use them as scientific evidence instead of actual scientific journals and publications. Please, keep citing court cases as evidence of whatever it is you're trying to argue, which becomes less clear with every response.

There is little reason to continue with you since you are all about consensus science and can not handle any decent(eerily similar to the Climate Change crowd).

I agree there's little reason for you to continue considering your track record here of failing to check your sources. This is one of the main drawbacks of relying on quack sites like Age of Autism, who list "Jenny McCarthy" as one of their main contributors.

And with that I am done with you. Feel free to post away and thump your chest and claim a victory.

Don't need to chest thump, as all I needed to make clear is that your assertions are not well-defined, are not well-sourced or researched, and have no merit. I've provided the review and documentation to show such, so whether you continue to keep being proven wrong is up to you. Or perhaps you'll consider that in light of being under such vast misapprehensions, you'll actually take a look at the evidence and not let anti-science blogs do your thinking for you.

140 posted on 02/09/2015 8:05:20 AM PST by GunRunner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 139 | View Replies ]


To: GunRunner
"The one I linked was 1271 pgs. That wasn't a scientific study published in a scientific journal, that was a confidential bridging report send to European pharmaceutical regulatory authorities. " No that was not a scientific journal, nor did I claim it to be so. It was an internal scientific study by the vaccine manufacturer. From post 134 "One of the deciding bits of evidence in that case was a 1271-page confidential GlaxoSmithKline report. " It did show the length of a rigorous study of a specific vaccine. Whereas you linked the press release of a study that is only 21 pages that you believe conclusively proves that a 3 virus concoction is safe. Clearly, when a company is bringing a vaccine to market they do a more thorough study than the pathetic 21 page study you cited. While you may believe that only publicly published studies are of any value. Vaccine companies spend millions of dollars producing confidential internal studies. I guess they just have money to burn. I think we can see that you Google well, but did not actually read the 1271 page study. It probably is beyond your abilities since it is clear you have no background in a scientific discipline.

"Well first of all, you're jumping back and forth between the 2012 and 2014 cases. In the matter of the 2012 case, it wasn't clear at all. In fact, other than one physician witness, the court jumps to a conclusion through non sequitur: ""
No, I am not and you know it. I initially posted a link to the 2012 case. I clearly introduced the 2014 case and explained the error. There is no back and forth and your lame attempt to paint it as otherwise shows your lack of intellectual integrity and your willingness to obfuscate(ie lie).
That wasn't a scientific study published in a scientific journal, that was a confidential bridging report send to European pharmaceutical regulatory authorities. Even the actual scientific studies that you linked to were were around a dozen pages, so for some reason you're under the false assumption that the length of peer-reviewed scientific studies rival long novels. Likewise the GSK report is not a peer-reviewed scientific study, so this is just more evidence that you don't have any experience reading scientific journals
Post 121
"Perhaps with the genius you clearly are you could put that abstract into laymans terms. Also could you post your credentials so that us layman could understand your superior medical knowledge in this matter with something we could look up and verify. And with your superior medical knowledge, do you see any failings in the methodology of this study. Also, maybe you in your infinite knowledge, could you educate us less fortunate folk, in matters regarding other adverse reactions to vaccines.
I would truly feel enlightened if you could dispel all the rumor mongering and bad science around the fact that no adverse reaction has ever been had with a “safe” vaccine.

Can't help but notice you never replied to this post. Is this as you say, "...more evidence that you don't have any experience reading scientific journals."

I clearly identified it as an internal study. From post 134 "One of the deciding bits of evidence in that case was a 1271-page confidential GlaxoSmithKline report. " Which was repeated in Post 138, so how you were confused is really beyond comprehension. Additionally, the article I linked cited it as an internal report. Once again you are showing your ignorance and/or your dishonesty.

"As far as the 2014 case, you didn't even mention that this case dealt with the hexavalent vaccine, not MMR. "
You have been in support of vaccines in general not anyone in specific. So, I do not see how this is even an argument that you would put forth. Please see above "if you could dispel all the rumor mongering and bad science around the fact that no adverse reaction has ever been had with a “safe” vaccine."

"Well, here we go. You see that you're arguments have been thoroughly debunked and defeated, so you're changing the goalposts and your arguments. Maybe you shouldn't have wasted all of your time trying to futilely prove an autism link, only to admit that an autism/vaccine link wasn't what you were arguing. "
Only you are arguing autism exclusively. Please see Post 121 again where it clearly states " Also, maybe you in your infinite knowledge, could you educate us less fortunate folk, in matters regarding other adverse reactions to vaccines. I would truly feel enlightened if you could dispel all the rumor mongering and bad science around the fact that no adverse reaction has ever been had with a “safe” vaccine.." Further, I cited a study from way back that identified Rubella as a cause of Autism. You never "debunked nor defeated" that study. Though you still claim that a MMR vaccine cannot cause autism even though one of the component viruses was determined to cause autism back in the 60's and 70's(way before Autism made the news).

I highly doubt you truly understand science at anymore than a high school level. Your goal of causality is rarely attained in any scientific research. Causal models are typically evaluated, at least initially, with data that describe an association or correlation between variables. If smoking causes lung cancer, then cancer rates should be higher (associated) with smokers. However, as most people know, there are smokers who never develop lung cancer and there are those who never smoke who do in fact get lung cancer. So, what you have proposed as proof is an almost impossible hurdle to overcome. You either did this through ignorance of science(most likely) or you are truly dishonest.

Either way, you are not really convincing anyone online that you are right. You are quite the arrogant douche and your lack of logic is telling. I have more than one PM about what a wanker you are, many of them citing the logical and factual flaws in your argument. I don't even need to list my degrees and work experience for anyone but the most pro-vaccine anti-liberty people to see you as the a science poser who Googles articles and parrots what he finds.
141 posted on 02/20/2015 8:06:29 PM PST by IchBinEinBerliner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 140 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson