Posted on 03/21/2015 9:53:16 AM PDT by PJ-Comix
“Drug dealers love this more. This will mean millions more in cash and assets they get to keep.”
That was the excuse for these horrible laws... then they turned around and used them against everyday people. This is a good move by NM, however...
The feds have programs where they work directly with the police department to perform the civil asset forfeiture and return a small percentage to the police department. Those programs are used to circumvent local laws. Unless the bill also stopped cooperation with the fed programs... they will just ignore it.
If you were a cop, whose assets would you prefer to seize: a drug dealer who has the resources to find out where you live and whack your whole family, or a common citizen heading home after selling a car for cash?
Sure, what you say is true and is a reason this thing has perpetuated. It takes more than one average Joe to fight this - it takes enough people in a state to prohibit this and any other unconstitutional state or federal behavior.
Too many people seem too acquiescent about government just taking away their liberties, like there’s nothing that can be done. On an individual basis, no, the normal guy can’t do much about the unjust incident you describe. But if enough people in a given state said, “Enough already!”, change would come.
This also is another strong argument against drug laws, at least federal drug laws, which gives them way too much intrusive power and oh BTW, are unconstitutional. People in a given state could choose to repeal state drug laws or tailor them to minimize these kinds of abuses.
“Drug dealers love this more. This will mean millions more in cash and assets they get to keep.”
Criminals love the fourth and fifth amendments as well.
I fear the government far more than I fear criminals.
It took more than one average Joe to take on killer cigarettes and asbestos. I am surprised that some bright law firm hasn’t thought to start a class action suit against illegal forfeiture.
Here is the exact 4th Amendment language: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
[The phrase “unreasonable searches and seizures”, however, is left to the interpretation of the Courts. And of course this is why we have local courts, appeals courts, and the Supreme Court.] While money is not a person, it is definitely a “thing” being seized.
Perfect definition.
The evil part were the police who partnered with the fed so they could use federal civil forfeiture rules to seize property that state law wouldn’t let them.
It is long settled that probable cause ("fair probability" that the person has committed a crime or that the thing sized is associated with a crime) is the standard for reasonable searches and seizures.
That's the constitutional standard. This CAF nonsense looks to be flatly unconstitutional and states and the people of a state need to band together to reject and stop this government behavior.
There is long-held constitutionally-based precedent on this subject and it is time for us to realize that the Constitution never handed over the reading, understanding, and interpreting of it exclusively to the Court. It is up to every branch of the federal government to rightly interpret the Constitution as written and originally intended, and it is also up to the states and the people to do the same.
The Constitution and the freedom it protects belong to US. WE are the owners. Since the Court and the feds have demonstrated an abandonment of constitutional limitations, it is now left to the states to stand up for the Constitution and the freedom it protects by nullifying and rejecting unconstitutional federal acts.
Any two that even REMOTELY convey true Conservative Principles will work for me. :)
No more Bushs. No more Clintons. No more RINOs. Enough!
yeah.....well....go ahead and try it and then tell me how much it costs you.
Which was my point.
Asserting rights, which was the basis of my complaint, cost me several times what the pistol was worth.
It is not free.
Which is why they continue to do it and get away with it, and have been for a couple hundred years now..
Dumbest post on the thread.
Sure, what you say is true and is a reason this thing has perpetuated. It takes more than one average Joe to fight this - it takes enough people in a state to have the state itself prohibit this and any other unconstitutional state or federal behavior.
Too many people seem too acquiescent about government just taking away their liberties, like there’s nothing that can be done. On an individual basis, no, the normal guy can’t do much about the unjust incident you describe. But if enough people in a given state said, “Enough already!”, change would come.
This also is another strong argument against drug laws, at least federal drug laws, which gives them way too much intrusive power and oh BTW, are unconstitutional. People in a given state could choose to repeal state drug laws or tailor them to minimize these kinds of abuses.
Yup....
I have been around long enough now to see the erosion of rights, and all were in the name of some societal ill that politicians felt the absolute need to address, regardless of the cost because those costs were never even discussed.
For example: “If we can just save one child”.
Having said the above....I have no idea how to stop it, because this has been going on unobstructed for generations..
When you consider that Obama was elected not only one time, but got a second term, my faith in the future of this country has declined to near zero.
In my view, the only way it can survive and be repaired is to begin anew on top of the rubble of the old.
This bill doesn’t go far enough. It needs to prohibit local police from directly receiving the benefits (payoffs) from the feds when they do CAF. Typically, even if they were not part of the bust, they get a 10% bribe.
To make matters much worse, they can only spend their bribe in “the federal store”, buying things like military surplus weapons, armored vehicles, explosives, and advanced communications equipment that gives the feds the ability to easily listen in on their activities.
In effect, CAF has directly funded the paramilitarization of local police departments, without US congressional or state legislative involvement.
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