Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Hydrogen, hydrogen everywhere...
market-robots.com ^ | 20 March 2015 Last updated at 10:21 ET | Matthew Wall

Posted on 03/21/2015 5:36:00 PM PDT by ckilmer

 

20 March 2015 Last updated at 10:21 ET

Hydrogen, hydrogen everywhere...

 

Earth's oceans from space Hydrogen is most commonly found in water - H2O - and in fossil fuels

 

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. And when you burn it or use it to produce electricity, the only waste product is water.

In the era of global warming, it would seem to be the perfect fuel.

So why aren't we all driving round in hydrogen-powered cars, moving our goods in hydrogen-powered lorries, and heating our homes and offices with this wonder element?

In short, fossil fuels got there first.

Oil, coal and gas were easily accessible and powered the industrial revolution. Around them, entire economies and transport infrastructures were built.

It was only much later that we realised the potentially catastrophic effects hydrocarbon waste products could have on the environment.

"In the Seventies, the oil crisis made people realise that oil-based economies were vulnerable, so people started to get excited about the potential for the hydrogen economy," says Alex Hart, hydrogen expert at the Carbon Trust.

"But then climate change saw a push towards electricity as the answer to hydrocarbons and hydrogen seemed like a distraction."

Now hydrogen is staging something of a comeback.

Fuel cell tech

Hydrogen fuel cells have been around for decades, but they have always been heavy and expensive.

Hydrogen fuel cell car America's first street-ready hydrogen fuel cell car took to the road in 1998
Toyota Mirai at hydrogen filling station Toyota's Mirai hydrogen fuel cell car will cost about €66,000 (£47,000)
Toyota Mirai engine Fuel cells are now smaller, cheaper and more efficient

Now Japanese car manufacturers in particular, like Honda, Toyota and Nissan, as well as Korea's Hyundai, believe they have finally made the fuel cell commercially viable and much more efficient.

Toyota's Mirai fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEV), for example, is being rolled out in the US, Japan, Denmark, Germany and the UK this year.

With a range of about 300-400 miles (480-640km) and a tank that can be filled in a matter of minutes, Toyota is hoping FCEVs can give conventional electric vehicles (EVs) a run for their money.

line

How does a hydrogen fuel cell work?

Hydrogen fuel cell in car engine

A fuel cell is composed of an anode, a cathode and an electrolyte membrane. Hydrogen is passed through the anode and oxygen through the cathode. At the anode, the hydrogen molecules are split into electrons and protons.

The protons pass through the electrolyte membrane, while the electrons are driven through a circuit, generating an electric current and heat. At the cathode, the protons, electrons and oxygen combine to produce water molecules.

Fuel cells are clean - the only by-products are electricity, heat and water - and they are quiet, because they have no moving parts.

The proton exchange membrane fuel cell is currently the most suitable for vehicles because it can operate at lower temperatures than other fuel cells, but it is not the most efficient.

line

"In Japan we have a three-year waiting list for the car - demand is outstripping supply," says Toyota's Nik Pearson.

Earlier this year, Toyota announced that it would share nearly 6,000 of its hydrogen fuel cell patents in a bid to boost FCEV development.

The patent portfolio covers fuel cell stacks, high-pressure hydrogen tanks, software control systems and the industrial processes involved in generating and supplying the gas.

Pump priming

But will all the other manufacturers develop FCEVs - and consumers buy them - without a filling station network already in place?

"There are already 100 hydrogen stations in California," says Mr Pearson, "and in the UK the government has given £11m of backing for a small network of 15 stations in the South East."

This is still small beer compared to the hundreds of thousands of petrol and diesel stations worldwide.

Hydrogen filling station Hydrogen cars can be refuelled in a matter of minutes, whereas electric battery vehicles take hours to recharge

"The technology of HFCEV has come on in leaps and bounds," says Dr Hamish Nichol, innovation manager for hydrogen at industrial gases giant BOC, part of the Linde Group. "But you need the infrastructure to fuel those cars - it's a chicken and egg situation.

"We're a commercial business - we're not going to build a hydrogen network just for the good of mankind. So we're going to need subsidy from the government."

 

Industrial gases companies, energy companies, vehicle manufacturers and governments are beginning to realise that they have to work together to build the infrastructure, otherwise each stakeholder will be waiting for the other to make the first move.

For example, in Germany just such a consortium - H2 Mobility - is building 100 hydrogen stations over the next two years, with a target of 400 by 2023. The project will cost about €350m (£250m).

And in the north-east of the US, Air Liquide is co-operating with Toyota to build 12 filling stations as a way of boosting interest in hydrogen cars.

But building a comprehensive network will cost billions, experts believe.

Grey or green?

Hydrogen may be a fuel with water as the only waste product, but producing it - most commonly by "cracking" hydrocarbons such as methane - uses a lot of energy and creates greenhouse gases as by-products.

"One of the reasons for using hydrogen is to reduce the carbon footprint, so splitting methane leaves you with the problem of what to do with the CO2 produced," says Dr Nichol.

Hybrid power station This German power station can produce electricity, heat and hydrogen from renewable energy sources

This industrially produced "grey hydrogen" currently accounts for about 95% of total production, says Pierre-Etienne Franc, head of advanced business and technology for Air Liquide, another big industrial gases company.

Far more eco-friendly is hydrogen produced through electrolysis - splitting water into its constituent hydrogen and oxygen molecules - particularly if the electricity used has come from renewable sources, such as wind and solar.

This is the ideal zero-carbon solution.

line
Graphic of hydrogen

Hydrogen facts

line

Another big advantage of electrolysis is that it allows hydrogen to be produced on site, cutting out distribution costs.

Denmark already has five hydrogen filling stations with embedded electrolysers, and Aberdeen City Council recently opened the UK's largest hydrogen production and bus refuelling station, owned and operated by BOC.

Hydrogen bus Aberdeen is now home to Europe's largest hydrogen bus fleet

The station will fuel 10 hydrogen fuel cell buses.

"But [electrolysis] is about 10 times more expensive than industrial production," admits Mr Franc.

These costs could come down if night-time wind power electricity were used to produce hydrogen when domestic demand is at its lowest, he argues. Oil companies like Shell are currently exploring this option.

Hydrogen future?

So are we well on the road to a fully-fledged hydrogen economy, weaned off our dependence on damaging hydrocarbons?

Possibly, but most industry experts believe that road will be a long one.

"It's going to take a long time because you're completely changing the paradigm - the infrastructure, the regulations - everything," says Mr Franc. "We're on a journey, but we can't go too fast."

The Carbon Trust's Alex Hart is similarly cautious: "Vehicles will definitely be fuelled differently in future, but whether by hydrogen, electricity or biofuel is less clear. We just don't know what the dominant technology will be.


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: agitprop; alternativeenergy; fuelcellcar; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; hydrogen; hydrogenfuel; rampantstupidity; unitedkingdom
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-122 next last
To: kosciusko51

Hydrogen production from biomass through the gasification process can run a internal combustion engine now, and back then, go ask those people during WWII who used gascifiers every day during the war.
The USA produced gascifiers for Europe during WWII, it’s not new techknowlogy, been around for awhile.


81 posted on 03/21/2015 7:59:11 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (The Keystone Pipe like Project : build it already Congress !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: stormhill
Just for the record, since we're talking about things that go boom, The NJ Air National Guard’s A-10s have been holding live fire exercises most of the day and night down at Warren Grove, which is about twenty or so miles south of me. Totally assume. Low muffled ‘’wumps’’ followed by a soft shaking. “Get ‘em boys!’’.
82 posted on 03/21/2015 7:59:51 PM PDT by jmacusa (Liberalism defined: When mom and dad go away for the weekend and the kids are in charge.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: BeauBo

Hydrogen would be better as a static generation source than for transportation until they can solve the storage and logistical problems.


83 posted on 03/21/2015 8:03:47 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (The Keystone Pipe like Project : build it already Congress !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: imardmd1

This thread is incomplete without a level-headed discussion about Lithium 6...a corollary to your comment...but I’m done beating my head against the wall about it here.


84 posted on 03/21/2015 8:05:12 PM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: American Constitutionalist
Hydrogen would be better as a static generation source than for transportation until they can solve the storage and logistical problems.

Look up Mike Strizki.

85 posted on 03/21/2015 8:10:23 PM PDT by mountn man (The Pleasure You Get From Life Is Equal To The Attitude You Put Into It)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: backwoods-engineer

Hydrogen powered cars are not being pushed much in the USA but they are huge in Japan and getting bigger in Germany. Neither country can afford to import oil anymore—especially the Japanese. Their debts are too high. So a lot of deep pockets are pushing the development of these cars. This stuff in 5-10 years will start to take small bites out of the demand for oil and then take bigger bites.

The electric car is the USA entry to alternatively fueled vehicles in the USA. Fuel cell cars so far have not got much traction.


86 posted on 03/21/2015 8:20:40 PM PDT by ckilmer (q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: backwoods-engineer

Fuel, by definition, is a substance that is burned by combustion to release heat, which is exactly what happens when hydrogen and oxygen combine to form H2O.

To say that just because the rocket industry is government-funded, and therefore classifies hydrogen incorrectly, is a incredulous stretch, and unworthy of an engineer of your caliber.


87 posted on 03/21/2015 8:24:57 PM PDT by kosciusko51
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum
Non-engineers know that hydrogen is the way to go.

Why are engineers so stupid?


BAHAHAHAHAHA best post I've seen today!
88 posted on 03/21/2015 8:28:28 PM PDT by Svartalfiar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer
unless you took chemistry in HS..gets 'em (mostly) everytime.

89 posted on 03/21/2015 8:51:16 PM PDT by skinkinthegrass (The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: logi_cal869

Our “cheap” energy, which previously came from the sun by direct radiation or indirectly through photosynthesis, whether from burning wood or oil, or from eating grass, oats, or bread, will never be topped by these alternative schemes, IMHO.

And yeah, the average cotozen usually doesn’t even know how to spell lithium, let alone be impressed by its impact.


90 posted on 03/21/2015 8:57:34 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

“Also, it wasn’t the hydrogen that was the problem with the Hindenburg.”

Well, the hydrogen wasn’t the problem. It was the oxygen.


91 posted on 03/21/2015 9:03:23 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: jmacusa

The democrats would ban hydrogen if it meant the USA would be the global producer of it.


92 posted on 03/21/2015 9:42:49 PM PDT by minnesota_bound
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: minnesota_bound

They sure would. And everything with sharp edges too. They just love banning stuff.


93 posted on 03/22/2015 3:37:25 AM PDT by jmacusa (Liberalism defined: When mom and dad go away for the weekend and the kids are in charge.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies]

To: backwoods-engineer

Which is exactly what I went on to say but at least you got to look smart for a moment.


94 posted on 03/22/2015 4:03:42 AM PDT by cripplecreek ("For by wise guidance you can wage your war")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer

What is the cost? What does it cost to fill a 400 gal tank? I drive about 20 miles or less per day...so a tank would last me almost 3 weeks. What would the cost be?

I’m sure the politicians will tax the hell out of it.


95 posted on 03/22/2015 4:49:56 AM PDT by nikos1121
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jmacusa

Just think..you have a car that basically extracts the Hydrogen from the water you put in the tank. Then there’s no gas station...you are your own gas station. When that happens...I’m in....


96 posted on 03/22/2015 4:53:36 AM PDT by nikos1121
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: nikos1121

They didn’t mention the cost. So its likely high.

imho the point here is not the data points right now—which are not good enough— but rather the direction the data points are moving—which will be good enough and maybe better.


97 posted on 03/22/2015 5:27:51 AM PDT by ckilmer (q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: imardmd1

Besides the fact that the irrational government fear of “Lithium-6 proliferation” is being used as an excuse to prevent the next big leap forward.

Being in bed with oil doesn’t help. But it is what it is...


98 posted on 03/22/2015 5:41:04 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: ckilmer

The car cost US 73,000. Cheap?

“It takes 4.72kWh to produce a liter stored as a liquid at 20K.” That is one answer to how much power it will take to produce one gallon of liquid hydrogen. Or to put it another way: wind and solar are out, large coal and nuclear power plants are in.

Perhaps the long awaited release of a working thermonuclear commercial power plant from Lockheed’s Skunk Works will make this a practical reality.


99 posted on 03/22/2015 6:12:26 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Extremely Extreme Extremist

“There is no such thing as “fossil fuels.”
Oil and its associated by-products are continuously made through Earth’s natural axis rotation and other geological forces.”

Please explain.


100 posted on 03/22/2015 6:27:26 AM PDT by Dusty Road (")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-122 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson