Posted on 07/05/2015 8:22:49 AM PDT by JJ_Folderol
Abel Reyna (AR) and Sgt. Patrick Swanton must have been sweating cold as they blitzed the media with apocalyptic visions of SAMCRO and the Mayans stabbing, shooting, and raping their way across Central Texas Marketplace during church hour, with the heroic police saving the day. But it was showtime, and the news cameras were already rolling. And thus, the "biker shootout" meme was born.
“My main concern here is that there are several on this Conservative website that are convinced that because you are a member of some particular group that it is just fine not to follow Constitutional limits when dealing with these groups. In this case several “Biker Gangs(shudder..)!”
What’s next? Sons of the South? Daughters/Sons of Confederate veterans? Tea party...oh that’s right. IRS has already done their best.
Fer instance. Let’s say that a Crip kills someone. Hard to believe, but it could happen.....So, law enforcement goes and arrests every Crip in Chicago? Why not? They keep detailed records on every known gang affiliate. Why is this not happening?
I do admit, if that happened I probably wouldn’t be as concerned as I am here. Probably because I’m racist.”
The Waco deal would be more in line of the cops learning in advance of a confrontation between a group of Crips and a group of Bloods.
The cops get there and when shooting starts, the cops shoot as well to stop the fight, save innocent nearby civilians from getting hit by stray rounds, etc.
Afterwards, they arrest all the Crips and Bloods present there, on the grounds they showed up in the first place, for the rumble.
The Bandidos and the Cossacks each had a couple of support groups at Waco. The cops arrested the two main gangs, plus support gangs.
The others in attendance not connected to the Bandidos or Cossacks, were not arrested.
It follows Texas’ statute which is similar to federal RICO, or organized crime.
BTW the Bandidos share the same Tier II classification by Texas law enforcement, with the Crips, Bloods and MS13.
Almost all of those arrested have been released on reduced bail, BTW.
Finally gangs like the Crips, Bloods, MS13 and Bandidos benefit from having willing associates with no records, yet.
I have known some biker guys. A friend of mine was killed in 1970, due to a drug situation. He worked at the ARCO refinery in Wilmington, had a wife and daughter. We are still friends with the wife.
Still know some. But the recovery group variety, not the drug dealing variety.
“I am not a bikers apologist. I am a Constitution supporter.”
Has the FR website moved over to Disneyland?
In your failure to rebuke truth_seeker, did you conveniently overlook “IF” trying to be cute or is that just overly complicated grammer for ya?
You nor anyone else knows which will be charged with murder, or other crimes from Twin Peaks.
When the trials playout, I think FR is going to have a lot less Waco shootout “Constitutional” complainers, aside from the few who really do have their ox being gored (bike gangers themselves).
I have been on enough Texas juries to know that no one can predict the verdict until the last minute in the jury room. My purpose here is to counter all the wildass conjecture that flies smack in the face of reality, that is giving FR a blackeye by seemingly supporting criminals. Whether its the reality of what took place, the reality of the ongoing legal process or the reality of which Constitutional Rights are being questioned.
Some where ya’ll got the idea that the only reason that the bikers were meeting was to fight. To resolve some kinda “turf war” or something. These clubs have been meeting regularly for years. With no violence. Not to mention, how would fighting outside a bar resolve a turf war? Last one standing or what?
The fact is as far as I can tell. A regularly scheduled meeting was happening. A fight started. Fights start outside bars all the time. I don’t know how many start in a bathroom....but I digress. 9 people were killed and 18 more wounded seriously. By whom? I think that is one of the questions that should be answered.
B.T.W. Did the fight start outside or in the bathroom?
If the “by whom” part is...oh, let’s say...1 was killed by handgun...8 by 5.56....and 15 were wounded by 5.56. Do you think we got a problem? Or more accurately, does Law Enforcement have a problem?
Sorry. I would really prefer not to speculate. Just asking.
88 looks like the fool’s errand.
How asinine are the disinformation peddlers to think the PTB were able to arrange a whole bunch of bike gangers to gather in public, in front to LEO, then commence to have a wildwest shootout? Man you guys gotta quit visiting Colorado....
In your twisted reality, do you actually contend that “Sons of the South? Daughters/Sons of Confederate veterans? Tea party” are the same Bandidos and Crips?
You continue to prove my point.
You and I are not racist to know that the group to which the Crips derive are a politically protected class as long as the liberals are in power.
But you are wrong to try to give the Bandidos and other gangs cover by trying to lump them in with those patriotic motorcycle groups you mentioned. Not only are you wrong, you do so in bad faith.
You better watch out, next thing ya know saleman will be crying to JR about you disrespecting him for not know much about grammar.
Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause,
Being at the scene of a significant murder, being a member of one of the groups involved, being armed, being seen hiding weapons, hiding from LEO, IS probably cause.
Next?
Law enforcement "experts" SAID so. That has been their official narrative from the start, and LEO "gang experts" or reports of their claims, are the ONLY sources from which falsely-named "truth seeker" heard it.
Self-interested law enforcement "experts" are the ONLY source of that claim. I've dug and looked and read through MANY MANY news reports from "established" journalists over the weeks since May 17, as well as non-news blogs, and the reality is that the ONLY source of claims that a fight was brewing, comes from LEO.
Falsely labeled folks like TS regard as reliable the word of police "experts" who are demonstrably FAILURES at being "experts" in their field -- if they were such experts, then how is it that two thirds of these criminal scumbbags wearing patches announcing themselves as belonging to a band of murders, violent thieves, meth-pushers, human traffickers, kidnappers, and extortionists, had managed to EVADE arrest until the lucky break (for law enforcement "experts" on scene) of them opening fire at each other during Waco to justify their mass arrest?
It isn't rocket science, there are MANY facts in evidence and full view, and the truth is as easy to discern as the acts of reading, due diligence, and critical thinking. Either that, O.J. really wasn't guilty and anyone who thinks he was is ignorant of the "facts."
But just like Civil Servants clearly have different rights than the rest of us in that they can use armed forces to administer mass punishment to citizens/civilians first and only be held accountable much later and at great expense to the punished, whereas citizens/civilians must wait for years to challenge the legality of Civil Servants wrongful use of armed force --
-- it is equally clear that many patriotic Americans are too faint of heart to face up to hard, sad truths like the first-of-its-kind successful mass use of police authority to punish without due process innocent citizens in a specific political demographic gathered at an open political meeting, that went down at Waco on May 17.
BS, you are not asking! You are wishfully inferring that all but 1 were killed by LEO. There has been no autopsy released. You don’t know doodly about the facts or it seems the Constitution.
What is the point in making up shite?
Which bike gang are you a part of? Your low information posts make no sense otherwise.
I don’t wish that anyone would be killed. By anybody. But that train has left the station.
I wonder why no autopsy has been released? You’d think that if they supported law enforcements version of events then they would be released. Not the autopsy itself but the results. I guess folks have given up the ole line that “it takes time to do autopsies.” I’m pretty sure they are done by now.
And as far as the Constitution, I can read and the Bill of Rights are really not the difficult. Further more....
You don’t know Doody either! Naaa, naaa, naaa.
Jeezus............
In your twisted reality, do you actually contend that “Sons of the South? Daughters/Sons of Confederate veterans? Tea party” are the same Bandidos and Crips
Not my reality. But some people do see those groups in the same way the you apparently see the Bandidos. I’m not the one you have to worry about.
You see, that was my whole point. I see it went over your head.
“4th amendment: and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. 170 rubber stamped warrants hardly fit the bill.”
Please cite which did not specify that which you quoted from the 4th.
“Amendment 5:nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation Being locked up for several weeks on $1,000,000 bond sounds, to me, to be a violation. Oh, they also confiscated many bikes and cars. See where it says no private property be taken?”
I believe that all were given their due process of law. Filing for Habeas Corpus, bond reduction hearings, etc. As for forfeiture, the US Supreme Court has heard numberous cases and federal and state law have been adjusted to these decisions.
“Amendment 8: Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflict. $1,000,000 bail per 170 folks is excessive. In My Opinion, of course.”
Of course, your opinion.
Here is a 2013 FBI report on organized crime. Motorcycle gangs are on page 13.
https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/national-gang-report-2013
Mocking names doesn’t change the fact that outlaw motorcycle gangs are the legitimate targets of law enforcement.
Crime syndicates like the Crips, Bloods, MS13 and Bandidos rely on new members (prospects) who don’t yet have criminal records, to do street level crime, hence many don’t have records.
I contend that towns like Waco, and my own, want their police to discourage motorcycle crime syndicate types from being comfortable, or operating there.
And for good reason, as this episode proves.
“A regularly scheduled meeting was happening. A fight started. Fights start outside bars all the time. I don’t know how many start in a bathroom....but I digress.”
I thought you just said there was never any trouble at these meetings!!!!!!
OTOH, this was BEFORE the meeting. And all witnesses including the bikers interviewed say that the bikers started shooting first.
“You better watch out, next thing ya know saleman will be crying to JR about you disrespecting him for not know much about grammar.”
OMG’s pull out knives and guns when disrespected ...
“Self-interested law enforcement “experts” are the ONLY source of that claim. I’ve dug and looked and read through MANY MANY news reports from “established” journalists over the weeks since May 17, as well as non-news blogs, and the reality is that the ONLY source of claims that a fight was brewing, comes from LEO. “
I believe that I have posted two other sources on this thread.
. As for forfeiture, the US Supreme Court has heard numberous cases and federal and state law have been adjusted to these decisions.
Yea well the Supreme court also decided it was o.k to kill babies.
Plus, Men can marry Men! Women can marry Women!
Buncha geniuses they are.
“Crime syndicates like the Crips, Bloods, MS13 and Bandidos rely on new members (prospects) who don’t yet have criminal records, to do street level crime, hence many don’t have records.”
New members are ‘encouraged’ to get their CC permits hence the need for recruits with clean records.
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