Posted on 07/05/2015 8:22:49 AM PDT by JJ_Folderol
Abel Reyna (AR) and Sgt. Patrick Swanton must have been sweating cold as they blitzed the media with apocalyptic visions of SAMCRO and the Mayans stabbing, shooting, and raping their way across Central Texas Marketplace during church hour, with the heroic police saving the day. But it was showtime, and the news cameras were already rolling. And thus, the "biker shootout" meme was born.
New meat? Welcome to the bike gang sympathizer barbeque.
Let’s answer you point by point.
you: 170 were arrested. How many do you think were actually involved in ANY violence?
me: does not matter how many were actually involved (only God would know this), the police had no way of knowing “at the scene” who was and who was not involved. In such a serious melee, everyone at the scene is under suspicion. That is why many were later released with no charged filed, or released on bond.
you:All 170 arrested were held on $1,000,000 bond. How many times, in the history of the United States, has that ever happened?
me: the bonds were high to hold the persons responsible long enough to determine each person’s involvement. I am confident those that were on a video or observed shooting were still bonded at $1Mil, as it should be.
you: Nine were killed. How many were killed by the Police.
me: hopefully all those that were shooting other persons, although we do know that the Bandido (your hero) president did shoot and did make $1Mil bond.
you: Law Enforcement from, what? three or 4 agencies were present in the parking lot
me: did they not say WPD, ATF and DEA? The police has had numerous threats by these bike gangs. They were well known organized criminal operations in many crimes.
you: Do you think it would be unusual for a criminal to pull out a gun and start shooting based on that Police presence. (this sounded like a question was not punctuated as one)
me: one would think that “most” people would have the good sense to refrain when they knew the cops were watching, but who besides this FR gaggle of bike gang suckups would NOT think being a bike ganger was pretty stupid to begin with.
you: they have gotten lock jaw. What’s up with that?
me: Even if I could excuse the simple-mindedness of that point, have you never heard of securing pre-trial evidence and not prejudicing the jury pool? This DA seems to be playing the cards very good for convicting as many of the guilty as possible. I don’t think under Texas law he has the authority to release evidence at this point.
Now my questions:
Are you a motorcycle rider?
Are you a ‘club’ member? Bandidos?
Do you dress up to look like a Hell’s Angel?
” Do you think it would be unusual for a criminal to pull out a gun and start shooting based on that Police presence.”
The fools that are stupid enough to pull guns in casinos where every inch is covered by professional team surveillance ...
attacking those of us with Constitutional concerns
JJ my boy, you all FR bike gang sympathizer’s previous ONLY contention was that Constitutional Rights had been violated.
Now that that strawdog has been laid to rest, not you don’t want it brought back up? How convenient.
me: does not matter how many were actually involved
Yep. That pesky little Constitution thing.
me: the bonds were high to hold the persons responsible long enough to determine each person’s involvement. I am confident those that were on a video or observed shooting were still bonded at $1Mil, as it should be.
That’s not what I asked. Quit avoiding the questions.
Hopefully? You seemed so positive before.
me: one would think that “most” people would have the good sense to refrain when they knew the cops were watching
Yea. You would think so. Which was my point.
“have you never heard of securing pre-trial evidence and not prejudicing the jury pool?”
The police didn’t seem to have any problem at all “prejudicing the jury pool” immediately after the incident.
Oh.
And. No. No. and No. See how easy that was. No obfuscation at all.
I just really appreciate the protections afforded by our Constitution. Apparently you read the text differently. That’s O.K. I still hope the Bill of Rights protects you should you every need it. But the way things are going I doubt it. Maybe you can just come up with $1,000,000 to get you out of jail.
“Fact. 170 were arrested. How many do you think were actually involved in ANY violence?”
Here is another FACT: If 170 bikers rode into the center from two opposing gangs, plus their support groups, with the intention of a fight, and then a fight takes place, and people die all 170 could be charged with murder.
In fact even if some who died were shot by police, all the bikers could be charged with murder.
And to opine to the contrary, is to be naïve; and to not be aware of the law.
Remember the two escapees last week, with their lady friend? And the discussion if anybody was hurt by the escapees while on the lamb, she could be charged with murder?
I imagine she was surprised to be informed of this legal FACT, but that doesn’t alter the fact.
Of the bikers, you defenders will suggest they only went their for beers, discuss motorcycling, maybe rumble a bit in the parking lot. How did we know there would be guns, gun fire, dead people. That was not our intent.
And the lady from the prison would argue she only helped them escape, but didn’t expect anybody to be hurt.
It is repeated observable behavior on virtually every one of these threads -- a concerted effort to out-volume because they are in fact VERY MUCH outnumbered.
Here is another FACT: If 170 bikers rode into the center from two opposing gangs, plus their support groups, with the intention of a fight, and then a fight takes place, and people die all 170 could be charged with murder.
So then it’s a fact? 170+ bikers rode to Twin Peaks with the intention of a fight? All 170 of them? And this is a fact? Where did you learn this “Fact”?
I am not a bikers apologist. I am a Constitution supporter.
Ping to Jim for PA’s post 88. Just a heads-up.
My main concern here is that there are several on this Conservative website that are convinced that because you are a member of some particular group that it is just fine not to follow Constitutional limits when dealing with these groups. In this case several “Biker Gangs(shudder..)!”
What’s next? Sons of the South? Daughters/Sons of Confederate veterans? Tea party...oh that’s right. IRS has already done their best.
Fer instance. Let’s say that a Crip kills someone. Hard to believe, but it could happen.....So, law enforcement goes and arrests every Crip in Chicago? Why not? They keep detailed records on every known gang affiliate. Why is this not happening?
I do admit, if that happened I probably wouldn’t be as concerned as I am here. Probably because I’m racist.
Because Crips didn't ride to Washington DC on 9-11-13 by the tens of thouands or hundreds (probably hundreds) of thousands (no actual counts exist and Snopes "official" count is as questionable and dubious as the claim of 800,000 to 1.2 million it claims to debunk) from every state in America in angry, patriotic counter-protest to the so-called "Million Muslim" march? Like American bikers did?
Because Crips aren't likely to be Veterans? Like American bikers are? Because Crips aren't likely to be American flag wavers they way American bikers are? Because Crips pose ZERO organized threat to resisting uncontsitutional government tyranny, the way freedom-loving patriotic American bikers do?
Oh but you have to remember what our friends/fellow members have to say about that.
See, those bikers that rode to Washington. Those 100’s of thousands. Those flag wavers? Those Patriots?
Those were not real biker bikers like those bikers at Twin Peaks. Those were different bikers. Somehow.
Really. I read that right here.
“So then it’s a fact? 170+ bikers rode to Twin Peaks with the intention of a fight? All 170 of them? And this is a fact? Where did you learn this “Fact”?”
Go back, read only what I wrote. Don’t change it, alter it.
“Apparently you read the text differently.”
Please cite any SPECIFIC violations of the constitution ...
“Here is another FACT: If 170 bikers rode into the center from two opposing gangs, plus their support groups, with the intention of a fight, and then a fight takes place, and people die all 170 could be charged with murder.”
There’s the exact thing you wrote......oh, I see. You really didn’t have any “Facts” you were just kinda pretending that you did.
How cute.
“Of the bikers, you defenders will suggest they only went their for beers, discuss motorcycling, maybe rumble a bit in the parking lot.”
You left out mingling with the waitresses instead of home with their wives ...
“And this is a fact?”
He started his sentence with “IF”.
Grammar 101.
It was VERY brave of those Texas law enforcement experts to admit this. Fewer than one in three of the Waco criminals, all but one residents of Texas, had ever been caught before in Texas committing even the smallest misdemeanor (two thirds had zero criminal record at all, heaven forbid!) even though they habitually and proudly wear SIGNS on their BACKS broadcasting their criminal intent and status to police "experts" and anyone else!
So it was quite brave of Texas law enforcement to expose the difference between the 9-11 DC patriot bikers and the 177 criminal scumbags at Waco, because in revealing it, they also indirectly admitted that Texas law "experts" are very, very bad at catching the murdering, kidnapping, human-trafficking, thieving, meth-pushing extortionist criminals of whom they have such "expert" knowledge.
So bad, in fact, that they indirectly ADMIT that the only way to catch these wily hardened criminals, who have obviously managed to evade arrest MOST of the time over the years in spite of the fact that they wear insignia and patches announcing their criminality, is to mass-arrest them in groups at a public restaurant, and THAT WAY establish the criminal records that up to that point, these violent criminal scuzzballs so grievously lacked! The poor cops HAD to arrest them if only to establish records!!
Good point you make -- we read it RIGHT HERE!!! And it came from a trustworthy source -- Texas law enforcement so humble as to admit to their own utter dismal failure as effective lawmen when dealing with criminals!
“Those were not real biker bikers like those bikers at Twin Peaks. Those were different bikers. Somehow.”
Most riders like me are decent people like me. Then there are the OMG’s.
4th amendment: and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
170 rubber stamped warrants hardly fit the bill.
Amendment 5:nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation
Being locked up for several weeks on $1,000,000 bond sounds, to me, to be a violation. Oh, they also confiscated many bikes and cars. See where it says no private property be taken?
Amendment 8:
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflict
$1,000,000 bail per 170 folks is excessive. In My Opinion, of course. What would you think excessive $2,000,000? $5,000,000? What? There’s gotta be an amount you think would be excessive.
There’s a few. I’m sure I missed a few others. After all, I’m not a Constitutional scholar.
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