Posted on 09/14/2015 5:21:59 PM PDT by juliosevero
The only reason Hitler and the Nazis were anti anything was to seize power.
BOLSHEVISM — FASCISM
The conventional view, notwithstanding the Hitler-Stalin pact of 1939, is that Communism and Nazism were opposites — one on the extreme left, the other on the extreme right.
At the time of the Spanish Civil War of 1936, Americans fell victim to the propaganda that Communists and Fascists (”Nazi” and “Fascist” will be discussed below) were enemies. In addition, the countless distinguished personalities who joined the North American Committee to Aid Spanish Democracy created the illusion that Communists were “on the side of righteousness.” Unbeknownst to them, the Communist Party ran the entire organization.
Source:
http://www.balintvazsonyi.org/other/americas_soul.html
I’ve read a lot about this subject and I disagree with you.
They really were fanatically anti-Communist, it was genuine, I mean the Marxists were in actual control of parts of Germany....Berlin wasn’t called Red Berlin for nothing.
At one point in the 1920s the Marxists seized control of huge portions of Bavaria and declared Bavaria a Soviet Republic.
The German people at that time, going into the 1930s were facing a rapidly stark choice, support National Socialism or Communism.
The hatred of Communists therefore was real and continued to be real throughout the period.
‘Um, are you trying to give the impression that Communism and Fascism are the SAME?
With all due respect, that’s absolute 100% nonsense, historically nonsense as well.
And they’re both as different from each other as Ebola and the Plague.
Saying Communism and Fascist are basically similar, that’s like saying an orange is similar to a sausage.
Blatantly absurd to the point of utter ridiculousness and ignorance.
The National Socialists Workers Party was indeed a Marx based movement. To deny that is lunacy.
Amazing how in the early days of WWII the Soviets supplied Hitler with Ukranian grain to feed das Wermacht. In return, Hitler stayed out of Russia.
The Nazi invasion of Poland was sanctioned by the Soviets.
They worked together.
From Flopping Aces:
Leftists and Liberals absolutely love to smear opponents as Nazis. In fact, Nazism belongs firmly on the left. Nazism is an abbreviation for National Socialist German Workers Party. The only way Nazism differs to Communism is that it is National Socialism whereas Communism is International Socialism. All of the rest is the same old Socialist dogma – state control of means of production, forcibly imposed collectivism with the individual reduced to a servant of the state and obviously, the Nazis were fiercely anti-capitalism.
Whilst he was still a journalist, Adolf Hitler was invited to join the then German Workers Party – the DAP – after giving a beguiling speech on how capitalism could be destroyed. The Nazis also promoted promiscuity, abortion, expanded the welfare state, and Hitler himself was a vegetarian and an environmentalist. The Nazis were pro-gun control and one of the first things they did was to outlaw gun ownership.
Then there’s the mass murder of human beings. The Nazis killed about 21 million people, a bit of an amateur effort compared to the Communist killing machines in the USSR and the Peoples’ Republic of China. It should never ever be forgotten that Nazism is a leftist ideology firmly rooted in Marxism. You cannot understand Communism or Nazism without understanding Marxism. This also applies to Mussolini’s Fascism – Italian National Socialism. Ignorant leftists who accuse others of being “far right” Nazis share the same Socialist beliefs as Stalin, Mao, Mussolini and Hitler. Remind them: Socialism is the progression to the Gulags of the USSR, the Laogais of China and the Konzentrationslagers of Nazi Germany. Odd how all of these brutal Socialist regimes had forced labor camps isn’t it?
They threw the Socialist bit overboard early on.
They came to an agreement with Stalin, didn’t mean they liked him or supported his philosophy.
Many of them felt, correctly, if they got into a war with The Soviet Union it’d be suicidal, hence the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.
They’d agreed to split Poland between them. Western Poland used to incorporate Prussia for a very long time, Eastern Poland was always predominantly Russian.
Then in 1941 Hitler against all advice from his Generals decided to invade Russia, for living space, resulting in well, a suicidal decision.
They ARE similar. They are big government tyrannies where the individual has little to no rights and the all powerful government rules over them. The brand of tyranny does not matter, call it fascism, communism, socialism, a monarchy or a dictatorship... it is all tyranny, it is ultimately the same. When the big government has all the power, and the people live under its rule with what degree of freedom the government decides they should have... yes, it is all the same.
Welcome noob.
I lived in Berlin during the 80s. Met lots of old SS troops there. They were flaming Marxists, all of them.
Your denial of truth reeks of Holocaust denial syndrome. And yes, I’ve been to Bergen Belsen und Auschwitz. Guarded Rudolph Hess at Spandau.
Stop trying to paint the Nazis as anything but what they were. MONSTERS.
Would you agree that the Fascists had a collectivist philosophy and that they wanted a large and powerful central state apparatus so as to exert social and economic control over their territory?
I’m sorry, but we’re going to have to agree to disagree.
I have an actual History Degree from Balliol College, Oxford University and I was taught ACTUAL proper history.
Not re-hashes, conspiracies or Revisionist Hollywood history.
I refuse to participate more in this thread, to be told that Communism and Fascism are almost the same thing.
Next you’ll be telling me that the Japanese Liberal Democratic Party are LIBERALS and telling me the Australian Liberal Party are LIBERALS.
That there’s no actual difference between them and Liberals and Lefties all over the planet.
BTW a while ago on the BBC they had a political debate with an audience and a member of the audience said:
“Well Hitler was a Socialist”
And the panel of Professors on the stage ALL laughed at that member of the audience and the majority of the audience laughed at them as well.
They laughed with good reason, because it’s rubbish that’s why.
Yes I’d agree with that, but that doesn’t make Fascists almost the same thing as Communists.
The words are just labels. Marx pictured communism as the a social situation in which the State has withered away and people just share stuff.
But people say Lenin and Stalin established communism in the Soviet Union. The State did not wither away in the USSR.
People use words to mean a lot of different things. Based on sloppy human usage over more than a century, I cannot really tell you what communism is, or socialism is, or what fascism is.
What I can say is: all collectivist systems are Left-wing.
Social systems emphasizing individual freedom are Right-wing.
Although our modern socialists' promise of greater freedom is genuine and sincere, in recent years observer after observer has been impressed by the unforeseen consequences of socialism, the extraordinary similarity in many respects of the conditions under "communism" and "fascism." As the writer Peter Drucker expressed it in 1939, "the complete collapse of the belief in the attainability of freedom and equality through Marxism has forced Russia to travel the same road toward a totalitarian society of un-freedom and inequality which Germany has been following. Not that communism and fascism are essentially the same. Fascism is the stage reached after communism has proved an illusion, and it has proved as much an illusion in Russia as in pre-Hitler Germany."
No less significant is the intellectual outlook of the rank and file in the communist and fascist movements in Germany before 1933. The relative ease with which a young communist could be converted into a Nazi or vice versa was well known, best of all to the propagandists of the two parties. The communists and Nazis clashed more frequently with each other than with other parties simply because they competed for the same type of mind and reserved for each other the hatred of the heretic. Their practice showed how closely they are related. To both, the real enemy, the man with whom they had nothing in common, was the liberal of the old type. While to the Nazi the communist and to the communist the Nazi, and to both the socialist, are potential recruits made of the right timber, they both know that there can be no compromise between them and those who really believe in individual freedom.
-- F.A. Hayek, The Road to Serfdom
Rent-seeking corporatism, AKA Fascism, is not Free Market Capitalism.
“Your denial of truth reeks of Holocaust denial syndrome”
Nope, don’t try that one on me, won’t work.
Saying that Communism and Fascism are different from each other = Holocaust denial.
Beyond absurd.
“Saying Communism and Fascist are basically similar, that’s like saying an orange is similar to a sausage.”
The difference is actually more like an orange to a tangerine, two forms of totalitarian government with slight and insignificant differences. For example Hitler maintained tight control over German corporations while Stalin owned Russian corporations outright. In Russia gun ownership was banned while in Nazi Germany Heinrich Himmler stated you could own one provided you joined the SS. Not much difference. The reason Hitler hated communism was because he simply preferred his own brand of totalitarian government.
“Based on sloppy human usage over more than a century, I cannot really tell you what communism is, or socialism is, or what fascism is.”
You have some point there, a great mixture of sloppy human usage, to the point of utter confusion, resulting in the situation where one gets people actually believing that a Communist and a Fascist have no real differences.
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