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I love my 30-30 Winchester (so much so that I have a couple). I love my .223 Mini-14.

...but neither are those qualify as “Long Term” survival weapons.

Short term, absolutely. Mid-term weapons. Absolutely.

...but “Long Term” survival means decades without 1st World ammo.

Re-supply is important, and becomes more critical over time.

For “Long Term” survival of decades without ammo, you need a hand-pumped air rifle...preferably something that shoots over 900fps.

An air rifle can shoot a BB, pellet, or even a small rock.

You could make your own bullets from car metal, iron girders, wheels, etc.

Hand pump it up, load your home made bullets. Fire away.

You can find such air rifles in .177, .22, and even .25 calibre. There is one such rifle that is called “THE BEAST” that shoots at 1,300 FPS.

Decent. About 32 joules of stopping power. Dependable/usable 80 yard range. In a survival setting, how much shooting would you be doing that’s longer than football field away??

http://www.gamousa.com/product.aspx?productID=288

...or if you are a cheap SOB, here’s 950 FPS for $200: http://www.topairgun.com/22-benjamin-titan-np-air-rifle

Now you are talking about a 70 yard useful range to still have varmint-stopping power. Not bad. Easier to cock than the 1,300 FPS air rifle, for certain.

OBVIOUSLY an air rifle is no match for a firearm, but for “Long Term” survival the air rifle will shoot pebbles that you pick up or hand chip...which a firearm won’t do when you can’t obtain gun powder, primers, or manufactured rounds.

Likewise, you can make an argument that a bow or crossbow has some “Long term” survival value because once again, you can easily hand-make arrows/bolts in a pinch with whatever is laying around.

“Long Term” is a different world from short term survival.

A world with decades of no ammunition implies a collapse that is so very hard, that I’m not sure I’d WANT to survive it. Besides, you and I are no spring chickens. In 30 years, even 20, we’ll be borderline old. Medical issues would claim us long before the ammo ran dry.

In fact, many people who have survived real collapses (in Argentina and Bosnia) warn us that the medical issues are the primary ones. A simple small cut that gets infected can kill. A bad batch of water and the subsequent diarrhea can kill. A tooth that abscesses. A broken limb. And so on, and so on, and so on.

I’ve done some experimentation by living on my survival food. A drastic diet change can give you the runs. Without proper hydration in that situation, you are done. While MREs and Freezedried foods are a good basis, a few fresh items can make it so your system adjusts better, and greatly improves palatability. You would be surprised how much difference adding chunks of a boiled potato makes to a freeze dried bag of (whatever).

Firearms are about fourth on my list of survival priorities. First is water. Second is medicine. Third is both environmental protection (against hot and cold) — and food. Fourth is firearms.

I’m pinging Kartographer because he loves Donald Trump.

Oh, and another issue that Selco (Bosnia) brings up is that a lot of us WAY underestimate the psychology portion of the survival test. Most of us are not used to killing or having people trying to kill us. Our reactions can range from the subtle, to the extreme, to the fatal. Some people could not stop shouting — didn’t even know they were! — even when quiet is called for, such as active military looking for you in the ruins. Others froze in place. Others would Bansai and be shot down. Some people could not kill. Some people acted very bizarrely — one fellow insisted on wearing bunny slippers. Selco speculated that this reminded him of the old times.

We don’t know how we will react under fire and when required to kill. The training the military gets makes most people so trained, react in predictable and professional manners. We are not trained thus.

It is an important consideration. One thing I feel I have going for me is a harsh lifestyle for a while there that taught me some street smarts, and taught me not to panic. When people try to surprise me (in fun or jest) in real life now, I usually look at them cooly and determine if they are a fatal threat, and if I need to neutralize it. That’s a good reaction.